Originally posted by rogue06
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The Discontinuous Fossil Record Refutes Darwinian Gradualism
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Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostBechly is talking about transitions to new body plans in 5 to 10 million years, such as in the Cambrian explosion. If this is indeed in the lifespan of an average species, then this is too short for Darwinian evolution.
Blessings,
Lee
This site not only demonstrated the rapid evolution form a small number of generalized mammals, plants and insects to many specialized species adapted to environmental niches, In this site the mammals at the end of the extinction event were very small generalized feeders that were omnivores feeding on anything available in a devastated environment. The specialized and larger mammals all died out. In the first million years mammals diversified in many different specialized mammals of many different sizes, reflecting rapid diversifitication of pants and insect food sources.
The bottom line is the changes in the environment rules evolution and not the necessity of the amount of time needed for evolution to take place.
PBS has a fantastic program on the Corral Bluffs site; See:
The reason why Bechly lacks any credibility in science is not the volumes of his scientific journal publications, but his dishonest ID agenda ignoring the obvious evidence such as the Corral Bluffs site that demonstrates his agenda is false.
Last edited by shunyadragon; 12-14-2021, 12:15 PM.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
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Originally posted by TheLurch View PostWhy do you accept his authority but not mine?
Blessings,
Lee
"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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Originally posted by Stoic View PostOnce various species are well established, you would expect a new species to be similar to a previous one, because selection pressures would discourage major changes.
That wasn't the case during the Cambrian explosion.
Blessings,
Lee
"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostDon't just guess. What does he mean? And not what you figure he might mean.
And when you are filling ecological or environmental niches, development (evolution) can be rapid.
Blessings,
Lee"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View PostIn the first million years mammals diversified in many different specialized mammals of many different sizes, reflecting rapid diversifitication of pants and insect food sources.
The bottom line is the changes in the environment rules evolution and not the necessity of the amount of time needed for evolution to take place.
Blessings,
Lee"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostSo let's say selective pressures changed, at the Cambrian-Ediacaran boundary. This would affect species longevity for Ediacaran species, but not, I think, for Cambrian species, since I also expect that selective pressures would stay fairly constant throughout the Cambrian.
Also, do you have any idea what the average species longevity was during the Cambrian?
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostThat may be so, but new body plans? New animal phyla?
No need for new body plans and phyla. You know natural selection, what works survives. There are organic structural developmental limits on the possible survivability of other different 'body plans.' The successful body plans and phyla evolved in Precambrian/Cambrian under evolutionary conditions not present later in the history of life. Simply any potential life precursers for new body plans and phyla would have been eaten in any attempt of later possibility of abiogenesis
I might mention molecular clocks here, mutation rates. Of course evolution needs time for it to take place...
Blessings,
Lee
Let's address Bechly's phony non-scientific assertions based on the religious agenda of ID and not science,.Last edited by shunyadragon; 12-14-2021, 08:37 PM.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View Postthere are many reasons, actually, one of them being that i object to bare arguments by authority, in matters where i can deduce a conclusion."Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostThat may be so, but new body plans? New animal phyla?
Put differently, the first members of a new phylum will not have a "new body plan". They will have a body plan that looks very much like that of the contemporary species they're closely related to. It's only due to the subsequent diversification that differences become pronounced.
Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostI might mention molecular clocks here, mutation rates. Of course evolution needs time for it to take place...
Molecular clocks rely on point mutations, and there are a lot of additional types, many of which (like duplications) can be more important for evolution.
Molecular clocks only track the mutations that are retained by modern populations, not the total number of mutations that occurred.
"Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostThere are many reasons, actually, one of them being that I object to bare arguments by authority, in matters where I can deduce a conclusion.
Blessings,
Lee
You actually don't realize that this has been precisely what you have been doing in this thread? Making a "bare argument by authority" while now claiming that you object to that?
Over and over you have repeatedly shown beyond any doubt that you lack the ability to "deduce a conclusion" in the matters being discussed simply because you have refused to even bother to make the effort to learn even the most fundamental basics of the topics that you ignorantly pontificate on.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostSo let's say selective pressures changed, at the Cambrian-Ediacaran boundary. This would affect species longevity for Ediacaran species, but not, I think, for Cambrian species, since I also expect that selective pressures would stay fairly constant throughout the Cambrian.
Blessings,
Lee
It would most definitely affect new species and selective pressures change all the time -- some times fairly drastically -- which is often the reason that periods themselves are subdivided into different stages. For instance, the Cambrian is divided into at least 10 different and distinct stages.
Learn the #@%&$ basics and stop spouting ignorant nonsense based solely on what you naively "expect" would happen.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostThat may be so, but new body plans? New animal phyla?
I might mention molecular clocks here, mutation rates. Of course evolution needs time for it to take place...
Blessings,
Lee
Last edited by shunyadragon; 12-15-2021, 08:28 AM.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Stoic View PostI don't know why you would expect selective pressures to stay constant throughout the Cambrian.
Though there were some ice ages, apparently, and several extinctions:
But note that there seem to have been no radiation events comparable to the Cambrian explosion, which would indicate that selective pressures remained fairly stable, if change in selective pressure is part of radiations, which I believe you are arguing for.
Also, do you have any idea what the average species longevity was during the Cambrian?
Yet species longevity could still remain stable, since longevity does not depend on the speciation rate. I would appeal to Bechly's (and rogue06's confirmation) estimate of about 2.5 to 10 million years, as a long-term average.
Blessings,
Lee
Last edited by lee_merrill; 12-15-2021, 07:59 PM."What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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Originally posted by TheLurch View Post... the first members of a new phylum will not have a "new body plan". They will have a body plan that looks very much like that of the contemporary species they're closely related to. It's only due to the subsequent diversification that differences become pronounced.
Molecular clocks rely on point mutations, and there are a lot of additional types, many of which (like duplications) can be more important for evolution.
Molecular clocks only track the mutations that are retained by modern populations, not the total number of mutations that occurred.
Blessings,
Lee
"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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