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The Discontinuous Fossil Record Refutes Darwinian Gradualism

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  • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
    I'm still trying to work out how a species can transition after it is extinct.
    The problem with this argument from the beginning is that the archaic view of linear evolution from one species to another has long ago been found false. As previously described and not responded to evolution takes place through more than one often many closely related species, subspecies and varieties over time.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
      I'd be happy with non-scientific sources with a religious agenda that at least strive to be honest. Evolution News doesn't even make a pretense.
      That’s in the “happy to replace this steel beam with a 4 by 6 oak to to pound my head against” category. Still painful, but enough less so to be noticeable.

      The subtext is that if species didn’t arise by evolution over billions of years, then they must have arisen all at once six thousand years ago. The idea is that if you shoot down the one, the other becomes true by default, a truly epic failure of reason and imagination.

      The vast majority of life on Earth, from which all other life on Earth descends, isn’t even recognized in the Bible. It’s not that it can’t win this game, it’s that it’s not even entered as a contestant.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Juvenal View Post

        That’s in the “happy to replace this steel beam with a 4 by 6 oak to to pound my head against” category. Still painful, but enough less so to be noticeable.

        The subtext is that if species didn’t arise by evolution over billions of years, then they must have arisen all at once six thousand years ago. The idea is that if you shoot down the one, the other becomes true by default, a truly epic failure of reason and imagination.

        The vast majority of life on Earth, from which all other life on Earth descends, isn’t even recognized in the Bible. It’s not that it can’t win this game, it’s that it’s not even entered as a contestant.
        I don't know about that. Take a look at BioLogos (founded by Francis Collins) for instance. Definitely a religious agenda but the science they promote has been sound every time I looked.

        I'm always still in trouble again

        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

        Comment


        • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
          I don't know about that. Take a look at BioLogos (founded by Francis Collins) for instance. Definitely a religious agenda but the science they promote has been sound every time I looked.
          And the ASA as well. Yes, there’s a religious agenda, but it’s an intramural agenda, directed internally, promoting a religious accommodation with science that’s meaningless outside the tradition. There’s nothing they’re saying with respect to evolution that the devil’s baker® wouldn’t say as well, and while I’m pretty comfortable with Christianity, I’m not a proponent.

          Cookies don’t care about your sins.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Juvenal View Post

            And the ASA as well. Yes, there’s a religious agenda, but it’s an intramural agenda, directed internally, promoting a religious accommodation with science that’s meaningless outside the tradition. There’s nothing they’re saying with respect to evolution that the devil’s baker® wouldn’t say as well, and while I’m pretty comfortable with Christianity, I’m not a proponent.

            Cookies don’t care about your sins.
            smiley lao.gif

            Closest I ever could find to the devil's baker

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
              Well, you missed my point, I'm not arguing that there is a limit to the number of species that can evolve, I'm saying let's look at what has been called evolution's best example, and note how many species there are in that lineage. Then count how many species lifetimes there are in the Cambrian explosion, and compare the two.


              But a new fossil is newsworthy, implying that fossils we have seen before, predominate.


              I'm not saying that's the only thing they found, and diversity could be diversity of mainly known fossils.

              Blessings,
              Lee
              The problem with this argument from the beginning is that the archaic view of linear evolution from one species to another has long ago been found false. As previously described and not responded to evolution takes place through more than one often many closely related species, subspecies and varieties over time.
              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

              go with the flow the river knows . . .

              Frank

              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Roy View Post
                That's like noting how many generations there have been in one family since WWII (3), counting the number of human lifespans there have been since WWII (1), and comparing the two.

                They're be different, for the same reason that the numbers from your comparison will be irrelevant - lifespan is longer than generation span. This is obvious to anyone who thinks about it.
                I don't understand your point, and I'm talking about the average longevity of a species, not the lifespan or generation span of individuals.

                Blessings,
                Lee
                "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                Comment


                • Originally posted by tabibito View Post
                  I'm still trying to work out how a species can transition after it is extinct.
                  But Bechly is evidently talking about speciation to the point of arriving at a new body plan.

                  Blessings,
                  Lee
                  "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
                    So, you're not actually making an argument, you're just suggesting we look at something?
                    I am making an argument, asking people to look at average species longevity versus the amount of time involved in the Cambrian explosion.

                    You're trying to base a scientific argument on what you recall seeing in the news? Seriously?
                    Certainly, because finding a new fossil is newsworthy, thus most fossils have been seen before.

                    What if I told you I had read the paper and you're wrong?
                    Glad to be corrected...

                    Blessings,
                    Lee
                    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                      The problem with this argument from the beginning is that the archaic view of linear evolution from one species to another has long ago been found false. As previously described and not responded to evolution takes place through more than one often many closely related species, subspecies and varieties over time.
                      But the (putative) whale lineage has no varieties over time, it's linear.

                      Blessings,
                      Lee
                      "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                        But the (putative) whale lineage has no varieties over time, it's linear.

                        Blessings,
                        Lee
                        No, you are being dishonestly selective concerning the limited 'present' evidence of one lineage of whales, which does not reflect the history of the evidence of the evolution of life over time. 'Arguing from ignorance' is a dishonest fallacy in your argument. Nonetheless the [resent evidence of the fossils found of whale evolution representability of science tp predict where in the time strata the intermediate species will be found.

                        You still have not responded to the evidence of the Corral Bluffs fossil site.

                        An interesting example of possible multiple species, subspecies and varieties existing at the same time and place in evolution is that of horses.

                        You have also still misrepresenting the nature of the Cambrian Explosion and the role of 'body plans' and phyla in the early diversification of life. You have also failed to respond to my posts and references concerning 'body plans' and phyla.

                        .
                        Last edited by shunyadragon; 12-23-2021, 05:31 PM.
                        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                        go with the flow the river knows . . .

                        Frank

                        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                        Comment


                        • A recent discovery concerning how fast an evolutionary lineage can diversify: https://theologyweb.com/campus/forum...-can-diversify

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                            I don't understand your point, ....
                            Not my problem.
                            Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                            mikewhitney: What if the speed of light changed when light is passing through water? ... I have 3 semesters of college Physics.

                            Mountain Man: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                            Mountain Man on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

                            Sparko: Even the deists like Jefferson believed in the Christian God, ...

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                              I am making an argument, asking people to look at average species longevity versus the amount of time involved in the Cambrian explosion.
                              Asking other people to do something that you're too lazy or incompetent to do is not making an argument. Making an argument is doing it yourself and presenting the results. All you've done is highlighted that you have no idea what you're talking about when you make claims.

                              Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                              Certainly, because finding a new fossil is newsworthy, thus most fossils have been seen before.
                              No, that's not true. You should check paleontology journals and see how often new fossils species are described.

                              Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                              Glad to be corrected...
                              And now you're missing my point. You have no idea what you're talking about because you haven't read the paper, yet here you are confidently talking about its contents as if you have.

                              A perfect demonstration that the truth is completely irrelevant to what you'll say here. How did you end up with such a complete disregard for it?
                              "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                                A recent discovery concerning how fast an evolutionary lineage can diversify: https://theologyweb.com/campus/forum...-can-diversify
                                And then there was this that I posted in September: Single Cells Can Evolve Into Multi-Cellular Organisms In Only Two Years

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                                Comment

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