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We've got a new drug? (for COVID!)

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  • We've got a new drug? (for COVID!)

    Some potentially positive news from Merck, which partnered with a small biotech to develop and trial a drug that targets SARS-CoV-2 — the drug was originally discovered by a non-profit associated with Emory University. The drug, which has the catchy name Molnupiravir, is a chemical relative of the RNA bases that comprise the genome of SARS-CoV-2, and apparently interferes with the process of making new copies of the viral genome. (Details on its mechanism are available if you're curious.)

    The drug had been in a phase 3 trial. The details of those are normally blinded until certain endpoints are reached (ie, > some number of patients reach 2 months after treatment or something similar). But they often have interim analysis points, where the data are given to people not involved in the trial to check and see if either the drug is clearly working, or clearly causing problems. In this case, the interim analysis fell on the "clearly working" side. The population were people with mild to moderate COVID-19, but at least one comorbidity that put them at risk of progressing to severe disease.

    Of 775 patients who had either taken the drug or placebo, 14% of those on the placebo were either hospitalized or died. In contrast, 7.3% of those receiving the drug did. That includes 8 deaths among those receiving placebo, and none in the treatment group.

    Given those results, the trial was halted (standard procedure is to immediately give the placebo group the drug). Merck plans to apply for an Emergency Use Authorization from the FDA as soon as possible.

    This is very good news. It's clear that a number of countries have a substantial population that is refusing to get vaccinated, and in the US, this is causing a lot of strain on the hospitals in several states. Anything that lowers the rate of hospitalization will be a big help both to those infected, and to anyone who needs medical care for other reasons.

    Beyond that, the whole public health response to this has been to rely on a combination of many layers of imperfect protections. The vaccines are great, but still allow breakthrough infections. But combined with masks and social distancing, the risks become very low. Now, we can apparently add a treatment that limits the impact of any residual breakthrough infections - not perfectly, but again, good enough to lower the overall risk further still. The more things like this we get, the better for society as a whole.



    No word yet on whether it's Bill Gates or George Soros that's got microchips in this one...
    "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

  • #2
    Is that this: Merck says experimental pill cuts worst effects of COVID-19?

    It comes in a pill rather than a jab.

    I wonder how much vaccine resistance comes from people who hate getting a shot. Not that anyone loves them, but I've known a few people who are positively afeared of them.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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    • #3
      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
      It is.

      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
      It comes in a pill rather than a jab.

      I wonder how much vaccine resistance comes from people who hate getting a shot. Not that anyone loves them, but I've known a few people who are positively afeared of them.
      People just need to donate blood once, and look at the size of the needle used for that. After that, you just laugh at the size of the needles used for vaccines.
      "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

      Comment


      • #4
        I am curious how the people who keep saying they would rather take drugs like Ivermectin rather than take a shot will react to this news? Will they accept it or create another conspiracy theory against it?

        mikewhitney

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          I am curious how the people who keep saying they would rather take drugs like Ivermectin rather than take a shot will react to this news? Will they accept it or create another conspiracy theory against it?
          Merck is also the main supplier of medical-grade ivermectin, but has advised against its use for COVID given the current lack of evidence for its utility. So, there's a built-in conspiracy here: they were just saying not to use ivermectin so they could sell you this drug instead!

          I'm personally curious about the people who said they wouldn't use a vaccine because it was only under an Emergency Use Authorization, or because it's not been in use long enough to know its long term effects, or because the vaccine wasn't fully effective. All of those apply here, so i'll be watching to see whether there's a difference in the response.
          "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
            Merck is also the main supplier of medical-grade ivermectin, but has advised against its use for COVID given the current lack of evidence for its utility. So, there's a built-in conspiracy here: they were just saying not to use ivermectin so they could sell you this drug instead!

            I'm personally curious about the people who said they wouldn't use a vaccine because it was only under an Emergency Use Authorization, or because it's not been in use long enough to know its long term effects, or because the vaccine wasn't fully effective. All of those apply here, so i'll be watching to see whether there's a difference in the response.
            What if the new drug is really Ivermectin with a new label?

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            • #7
              I heard someone on the radio call it Tamiflu for Covid

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                What if the new drug is really Ivermectin with a new label?
                That would be capitalistic genius.
                Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                Beige Nationalist.

                "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
                  Merck is also the main supplier of medical-grade ivermectin, but has advised against its use for COVID given the current lack of evidence for its utility. So, there's a built-in conspiracy here: they were just saying not to use ivermectin so they could sell you this drug instead!

                  I'm personally curious about the people who said they wouldn't use a vaccine because it was only under an Emergency Use Authorization, or because it's not been in use long enough to know its long term effects, or because the vaccine wasn't fully effective. All of those apply here, so i'll be watching to see whether there's a difference in the response.
                  Originally, my plan was to wait about six months, after which there would be a fair chance I'd take the jab, depending on how it played out in terms of real-world effectiveness and safety. That would have been around June. But now, there is virtually no chance I'll submit to any of the vaxes.

                  -- The VAERS data have been too bad to ignore or dismiss.

                  -- The real-world effectiveness, good as it supposedly is, has still been much less than we were led to expect.

                  -- I doubt I will ever trust the safety data, even years down the line.

                  -- Even if the vaxes really are safe, at this point I won't submit to one. The very fact that TPTB are imposing dictatorial mandates tells me I need to do what little I can to stand for liberty, even if doing so costs me freedom in other areas.

                  -- I was more open to the new Merck pills, but you've convinced me I was probably in error and should avoid them also.
                  Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                  Beige Nationalist.

                  "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                  Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

                    Originally, my plan was to wait about six months, after which there would be a fair chance I'd take the jab, depending on how it played out in terms of real-world effectiveness and safety. That would have been around June. But now, there is virtually no chance I'll submit to any of the vaxes.

                    -- The VAERS data have been too bad to ignore or dismiss.

                    -- The real-world effectiveness, good as it supposedly is, has still been much less than we were led to expect.

                    -- I doubt I will ever trust the safety data, even years down the line.

                    -- Even if the vaxes really are safe, at this point I won't submit to one. The very fact that TPTB are imposing dictatorial mandates tells me I need to do what little I can to stand for liberty, even if doing so costs me freedom in other areas.

                    -- I was more open to the new Merck pills, but you've convinced me I was probably in error and should avoid them also.
                    We have watched at 3 friends that were convinced by the same misinformation that drives your reasons to avoid the vaccine die in the last 3 months from covid. It is just so heartbreaking to see the cost of it, to see how prevalent it is among our Christian friends, and how unnecessary their deaths have been, and how powerless we have been to break through whatever it is that makes these ideas attractive to evangelical Christians.
                    Last edited by oxmixmudd; 10-02-2021, 08:32 AM.
                    My 'faith' designation is 'Christian'. But I do not want the label "Christian" leading to mockery of faith in Christ. Consequently, I apologize if words of mine written in this post or others reflect poorly on the what Faith in Christ means, or what Faith in Christ can in fact do in terms of bringing Grace, Mercy, and Love into the world.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                      But now, there is virtually no chance I'll submit to any of the vaxes.
                      I realize that you're now committed to this, and you basically say here that there's no evidence that could possibly change your mind:

                      Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                      -- I doubt I will ever trust the safety data, even years down the line.
                      (Though why you're posting in a science forum, which is ostensibly about evidence, i'm not sure.)

                      So, please ignore this, as i'm posting for anyone who might read your misinformation and think you might have a point.

                      Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                      -- The VAERS data have been too bad to ignore or dismiss.
                      And nobody's ignoring it - it was undoubtedly helpful in identifying the rare and treatable side effects that we've identified so far. But it's also just a collection of anecdotes - things that people choose to report that happen within a few months of vaccination. There's a lot of unrelated stuff in there, and probably more than usual, since this is the largest vaccine campaign that the US has seen in decades.

                      To believe that VAERS is worrying is to believe the conspiracy theory that the medical community is acknowledging some dangerous side effects, but not others.

                      Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                      -- The real-world effectiveness, good as it supposedly is, has still been much less than we were led to expect.
                      The initial data was based on protection against the original SARS-CoV-2 strain. It is less effective against the strains currently prevalent. Nobody was being misleading.

                      Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                      -- Even if the vaxes really are safe, at this point I won't submit to one. The very fact that TPTB are imposing dictatorial mandates tells me I need to do what little I can to stand for liberty, even if doing so costs me freedom in other areas.
                      I look forward to your reports regarding having thrown away your driver's license, torn up your insurance card, removed your seatbelt, and disconnected your headlights.

                      Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                      -- I was more open to the new Merck pills, but you've convinced me I was probably in error and should avoid them also.
                      So, someone you disagree with describes something as positive, and that's enough to get you to fear it?
                      "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        There is also in research is a vaccine patch: https://uncnews.unc.edu/2021/09/23/a...ithout-a-shot/
                        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                        go with the flow the river knows . . .

                        Frank

                        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                          I am curious how the people who keep saying they would rather take drugs like Ivermectin rather than take a shot will react to this news? Will they accept it or create another conspiracy theory against it?

                          mikewhitney
                          As long as there are ignorant people, there will be new expensive alternatives to Ivermectin. Who is the one misled? The one who accepts the scientific studies of the effectiveness of Ivermectin or the one seeking dangerous experimental technologies?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                            There is also in research is a vaccine patch: https://uncnews.unc.edu/2021/09/23/a...ithout-a-shot/
                            They will keep producing new products for you. This is a big market that has been seeking to reach 7 billion people, even children who are not susceptible to Covid-19.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                              We have watched at 3 friends that were convinced by the same misinformation that drives your reasons to avoid the vaccine die in the last 3 months from covid. It is just so heartbreaking to see the cost of it, to see how prevalent it is among our Christian friends, and how unnecessary their deaths have been, and how powerless we have been to break through whatever it is that makes these ideas attractive to evangelical Christians.
                              My question always is -- did these people die because the hospital would not use Ivermectin or even the expensive monoclonal antibodies? If they have died without getting such treatments, the doctors and hospitals are guilty of malpractice if not pure murder.

                              Comment

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