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Fossils of four legged whale found in Egypt
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Fossils of four legged whale found in Egypt
Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.Tags: None
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Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
The fossils were originally unearthed in Egypt's western desert in 2008, and they named the creature it came from Phiomicetus anubi, with the species name coming from the god Anubus (the head of whom supposedly resembles this amphibious whale ancestor's skull).
The paper describing the discovery, A new protocetid whale offers clues to biogeography and feeding ecology in early cetacean evolution can be read by clicking the link. Here is the abstract:
Abstract:
Over about 10 million years, the ancestors of whales transformed from herbivorous, deer-like, terrestrial mammals into carnivorous and fully aquatic cetaceans. Protocetids are Eocene whales that represent a unique semiaquatic stage in that dramatic evolutionary transformation. Here, we report on a new medium-sized protocetid, Phiomicetus anubis gen. et sp. nov., consisting of a partial skeleton from the middle Eocene (Lutetian) of the Fayum Depression in Egypt. The new species differs from other protocetids in having large, elongated temporal fossae, anteriorly placed pterygoids, elongated parietals, an unfused mandibular symphysis that terminates at the level of P3, and a relatively enlarged I3. Unique features of the skull and mandible suggest a capacity for more efficient oral mechanical processing than the typical protocetid condition, thereby allowing for a strong raptorial feeding style. Phylogenetic analysis nests Phiomicetus within the paraphyletic Protocetidae, as the most basal protocetid known from Africa. Recovery of Phiomicetus from the same bed that yielded the remingtonocetid Rayanistes afer provides the first clear evidence for the co-occurrence of the basal cetacean families Remingtonocetidae and Protocetidae in Africa. The discovery of Phiomicetus further augments our understanding of the biogeography and feeding ecology of early whales.
A couple imagesrspb20211368f01.jpg
The holotype of Phiomicetus anubis, n. gen. et sp., MUVP 500. Skull in lateral (a) and dorsal (b) views; the mandibles and associated teeth in medial (c), lateral (d), and occlusal (e) views; (f) the fifth cervical vertebra in cranial view; (g) the sixth thoracic vertebra in cranial view; (h) the sixth left rib in cranial view; (i) shaft of a right rib in caudal view. Scale bar equals 5 cm
rspb20211368f02.jpg
Phylogenetic relationships and biogeography of Phiomicetus and other extinct cetaceans. ‘Allcompat’ consensus (majority-rule plus compatible groups)
tree from the Bayesian tip-dating analysis of the 190-character matrix in MrBayes 3.2.5 with the implementation of the FBD prior. Numerical values
to the left of nodes represent posterior probabilities (PPs) (×100). Icons to the right of taxon names reflect the geographic location of each fossil.
When I first heard about this the news source gave the inaccurate impression that Phiomicetus anubi was closer to Pakicetus and Ambulocetus than it is.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Only they don't seem to know that it had four legs!
Blessings,
Lee"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostOnly they don't seem to know that it had four legs!
Blessings,
Lee
'Perhaps' is not the basis for a scientific hypothesis.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
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Originally posted by lee_merrill View PostOnly they don't seem to know that it had four legs!
Blessings,
Lee
Not a great way to base an objection.
Still, given the limbs were not found I suppose it is possible that they could have been more seal-like but that just skips over the evidence that whatever the case it was amphibious. Not something you see today with whales.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostPerhaps it had tentacles. Perhaps it had...
Not a great way to base an objection.
Blessings,
Lee
"What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)
Comment
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostPerhaps it had tentacles. Perhaps it had...
Not a great way to base an objection.
Still, given the limbs were not found I suppose it is possible that they could have been more seal-like but that just skips over the evidence that whatever the case it was amphibious. Not something you see today with whales.1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
.⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
Scripture before Tradition:
but that won't prevent others from
taking it upon themselves to deprive you
of the right to call yourself Christian.
⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostPerhaps it had tentacles. Perhaps it had...
Not a great way to base an objection.
Still, given the limbs were not found I suppose it is possible that they could have been more seal-like but that just skips over the evidence that whatever the case it was amphibious. Not something you see today with whales."What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer
"... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen
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Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
You and I have similar beliefs in re to evolution but, I don't see how you could even make the distinction it's amphibious based on what was found.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostThe structure of the head indicates that it was primarily an air breather and the sediments it was found in (as well as its closest relatives) were, as the paper states, "recovered from the green shale of the Midawara Formation, indicating an even more deep-water setting." A primarily air-breathing mammal related to modern whales, the remains of which were found in deep water sediments.Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
-
Originally posted by rogue06 View PostThe structure of the head indicates that it was primarily an air breather and the sediments it was found in (as well as its closest relatives) were, as the paper states, "recovered from the green shale of the Midawara Formation, indicating an even more deep-water setting." A primarily air-breathing mammal related to modern whales, the remains of which were found in deep water sediments."What has the Church gained if it is popular, but there is no conviction, no repentance, no power?" - A.W. Tozer
"... there are two parties in Washington, the stupid party and the evil party, who occasionally get together and do something both stupid and evil, and this is called bipartisanship." - Everett Dirksen
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Originally posted by Littlejoe View PostWhales are air breathers so, I'm still not seeing it. And where are the legs that make a four legged whale?
The reason they're assuming more leg-like limbs is none of the other whale ancestors from anywhere around this period had them and none had anything even like fins. While theoretically it is possible that one developed fins this early, that would have provided a significant advantage in the water over its kin and we should have seen them radiate out and become predominant in relatively short order (geologically speaking).
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
-
Originally posted by Littlejoe View Post
Whales are air breathers so, I'm still not seeing it. And where are the legs that make a four legged whale?Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:
go with the flow the river knows . . .
Frank
I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.
Comment
-
Originally posted by rogue06 View PostYour original objection was that you didn't see evidence for amphibiousness. Yet even without proper legs but more flipper-like limbs all you have to do is look around and you can see amphibious mammals such as seals, walrus and sea lions. So that is hardly an objection.
The reason they're assuming more leg-like limbs is none of the other whale ancestors from anywhere around this period had them and none had anything even like fins. While theoretically it is possible that one developed fins this early, that would have provided a significant advantage in the water over its kin and we should have seen them radiate out and become predominant in relatively short order (geologically speaking).
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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