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Biologos does an about-face on Adam and Eve

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  • Biologos does an about-face on Adam and Eve

    They now support a real possibility of an actual Adam and Eve!

    Source: Peaceful Science

    Quoting Darrel Falk: I am one of the many scientists who have maintained that the existence of Adam and Eve as ancestors of all people on earth is incompatible with the scientific data. In this book, Joshua Swamidass effectively demonstrates that people like me, stuck in a specific genetic paradigm, were wrong….a traditional understanding of the Genesis narrative, including the sudden creation of Adam and Eve, is fully compatible with science.

    Source

    © Copyright Original Source



    As an aside, I have enjoyed reading some of the back-and-forth at the Peaceful Science forum.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  • #2
    Um, Darrel Falk is not the same thing as BioLogos. He was a past president and remains on the advisory staff but he no more represents the view of BioLogos than does Francis Collins (former leader of the Human Genome Project and current director of the National Institutes of Health) who founded it and was its first president. The fact is that BioLogos has always been open to the idea that Adam and Eve were historic.


    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
      As an aside, I have enjoyed reading some of the back-and-forth at the Peaceful Science forum.
      Excellent. Please continue to do read them only.

      Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

      mikewhitney: What if the speed of light changed when light is passing through water? ... I have 3 semesters of college Physics.

      Mountain Man: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
      Mountain Man on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

      Sparko: Even the deists like Jefferson believed in the Christian God, ...

      Comment


      • #4
        I prefer to see some peer reviewed articles from scientific journals that concludes and shows the comparative details that the Biblical record of Adam and Eve is compatible with 'contemporary science,' and not a layman's Christian magazine.

        The 'contemporary scientific knowledge of evolution is not remotely compatible with the Biblical Adam and Eve story. The scientific knowledge indicates that humans evolve from large primate populations in Africa over millions of years, and not population of two..

        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

        go with the flow the river knows . . .

        Frank

        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
          Um, Darrel Falk is not the same thing as BioLogos.
          I know, the quote was only to demonstrate the change.

          On the contrary, it appears they have changed their position. Did you read the article?

          Source: Peaceful Science

          BioLogos’s position on Adam and Eve was understood to reflect the scientific consensus. But BioLogos' new position shows that many of the claims in their past position were incorrect.

          A decade later, this June 2021, BioLogos published a new position on what genetics says about Adam and Eve. This new position statement recommends their theological position on Adam and Eve, which itself underwent several revisions in the last few years.

          © Copyright Original Source



          Blessings,
          Lee
          "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
            I know, the quote was only to demonstrate the change.



            On the contrary, it appears they have changed their position. Did you read the article?

            Source: Peaceful Science

            BioLogos’s position on Adam and Eve was understood to reflect the scientific consensus. But BioLogos' new position shows that many of the claims in their past position were incorrect.

            A decade later, this June 2021, BioLogos published a new position on what genetics says about Adam and Eve. This new position statement recommends their theological position on Adam and Eve, which itself underwent several revisions in the last few years.

            © Copyright Original Source



            Blessings,
            Lee
            Didn't read all the links and the links in the articles themselves (yet) but the couple I did we're focused on what BioLogos said about the author and his views which doesn't automatically equate to what you said.

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • #7
              An important issue glossed over by Biologos is the central concept pf Christianity and Adam and Eve is 'Original Sin' and the Fall. This described in detail in Genesis ae an original ideal fantasy world without sin and death transformed to violent world of sin and death by the Fall and the 'Original Sin' of Adam and Eve.

              This cannot be remotely 'gerrymandered' to force fit the Biblical account into contemporary science of evolution.
              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

              go with the flow the river knows . . .

              Frank

              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                An important issue glossed over by Biologos is the central concept pf Christianity and Adam and Eve is 'Original Sin' and the Fall. This described in detail in Genesis ae an original ideal fantasy world without sin and death transformed to violent world of sin and death by the Fall and the 'Original Sin' of Adam and Eve.
                The Christian doctrine is that death came to man when Adam sinned. YECs I think believe that death to all creation came into the world through Adam's sin, but I disagree with that, as do others, I don't find that in Scripture.

                Blessings,
                Lee
                "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                  The Christian doctrine is that death came to man when Adam sinned. YECs I think believe that death to all creation came into the world through Adam's sin, but I disagree with that, as do others, I don't find that in Scripture.

                  Blessings,
                  Lee
                  Yeah, there isn't just one Christian take on that.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    Yeah, there isn't just one Christian take on that.
                    Of course there are many diverse conflicting takes on Adam and Eve, the Fall and Original Sin in an attempt to 'gerrymander ' the scripture to fit ancient mythical scripture, but the scripture itself does not remotely fit the contemporary science of evolution. This the reason in opposition to harmonizing the scripture with science 40%+ of the Christians reject the contemporary science of evolution and cosmology.

                    Just a few citations that make it difficult to interpret the Bible in any way other than what it states. Biblically death, sin and suffering came into the world with the 'Original Sin' of Adam and Eve.'

                    Romans 5:12 "Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned."

                    Psalm 51:5 "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me."

                    Genesis 2:17 "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

                    Genesis 3:1-24 Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?” And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’” But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” .



                    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                    go with the flow the river knows . . .

                    Frank

                    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                      Of course there are many diverse conflicting takes on Adam and Eve, the Fall and Original Sin in an attempt to 'gerrymander ' the scripture to fit ancient mythical scripture, but the scripture itself does not remotely fit the contemporary science of evolution. This the reason in opposition to harmonizing the scripture with science 40%+ of the Christians reject the contemporary science of evolution and cosmology.

                      Just a few citations that make it difficult to interpret the Bible in any way other than what it states. Biblically death, sin and suffering came into the world with the 'Original Sin' of Adam and Eve.'

                      Romans 5:12 "Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned."

                      Psalm 51:5 "Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me."

                      Genesis 2:17 "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”

                      Genesis 3:1-24 Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?” And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’” But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” .
                      Probably the biggest difficulty is with those who are insistent upon viewing the Bible as a science textbook seeking to convey scientific understanding. When it sinks in that God is not trying to conduct a science lesson here but is dealing with different truths, most of the problems evaporate away. Only the more woodenly literal interpretations require "gerrymandering"(?) some others that see it as metaphysical or allegorical and even a couple of literal interpretations... not so much.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                        Probably the biggest difficulty is with those who are insistent upon viewing the Bible as a science textbook seeking to convey scientific understanding. When it sinks in that God is not trying to conduct a science lesson here but is dealing with different truths, most of the problems evaporate away. Only the more woodenly literal interpretations require "gerrymandering"(?) some others that see it as metaphysical or allegorical and even a couple of literal interpretations... not so much.
                        Your response confirms my point that the Bible itself cannot be harmonized with the contemporary science of evolution and also contemporary cosmology. Nothing evaporates concerning the fact that the basic doctrines and dogma are based on a literal understanding of the Adam and Eve, the Fall and Original Sin is not only a scientific issue, but also a historical one. . It is also a fact that those that authored the New Testament also believed in a historica literal Genesis. Yes, some interpretation indicates they believed as metaphysical, but also literal.

                        Yes you may make an alternative explanation, after the fact,to yes by definition 'gerrymander' the text to make it fit, but you have to leave out much of scripture such as I cited like Thomas Jefferson did to make the Bible fit his view of what scripture should be..

                        It remains a question whether Biologos actually changed their view of Genesis and contemporary science.
                        Last edited by shunyadragon; 09-09-2021, 08:46 PM.
                        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                        go with the flow the river knows . . .

                        Frank

                        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          Probably the biggest difficulty is with those who are insistent upon viewing the Bible as a science textbook seeking to convey scientific understanding. When it sinks in that God is not trying to conduct a science lesson here but is dealing with different truths, most of the problems evaporate away. Only the more woodenly literal interpretations require "gerrymandering"(?) some others that see it as metaphysical or allegorical and even a couple of literal interpretations... not so much.
                          It remains a question whether Biologos actually changed their view of Genesis and contemporary science.

                          In 2019 an article by a Biologos scientist Ryan Bebej expressed his conversion from a Young Earth Creationist to a believer in evolution: https://biologos.org/personal-storie...xpert-my-story

                          . . . and here: https://biologos.org/common-question...-for-evolution

                          I believe biologox has a history of supporting evolution called 'Evolutionary Creationism.'

                          I do not believe there has been ab 'about face.'
                          Last edited by shunyadragon; 09-09-2021, 09:00 PM.
                          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                          go with the flow the river knows . . .

                          Frank

                          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                            Your response confirms my point that the Bible itself cannot be harmonized with the contemporary science of evolution and also contemporary cosmology.
                            This is true with a specific overly literal interpretation of Scripture but not of Scripture itself.


                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                              This is true with a specific overly literal interpretation of Scripture but not of Scripture itself.
                              I cited specific scripture that are not as flexible to interpretation as you claim. The fundamental doctrine and dogma of Christianity is still dependent on a degree of literal interpretation of the Fall and Original Sin of Adam and Eve.

                              The following is hardly open to metaphoeical in terpretation:

                              Genesis 3:16

                              “I will surely multiply your pain in childbearing;

                              iin pain you shall bring forth children.

                              jYour desire shall be contrary to6 your husband,

                              but he shall krule over you.”
                              Last edited by shunyadragon; 09-10-2021, 07:12 AM.
                              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                              go with the flow the river knows . . .

                              Frank

                              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                              Comment

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