Ancient Covid?

[shunyadragon]

Simple question. Where does CSIS get their numbers?

On th ground in the countries in the data is collected.

Still waiting for you to document your objections. Your a scientist and it is best for you not to resort to the vague ambiguous 'argument from ignorance.'

[rogue06]

This data is not relying only on the countries data. If this were so the China data would be complete. The data relies on the work and confirmation of CSIS. Again . . .

The source cited is reliable. They have on the ground sources in the different countries.When they do not they say so as in China.

If you disagree please document.

There are a number of viruses and diseases in the history of humanity that develop evolved generic resistance such as the development of sickle cell anemia in blacks as resistance to malaria.

Simple question. Where does CSIS get their numbers?

[shunyadragon]

The source may be reliable and accurately reporting the numbers they were given. It is the numbers given that I question. I've read before about how, for instance, Vietnam has no idea how severely the pandemic hit them and that there numbers are wholly unreliable.

This data is not relying only on the countries data. If this were so the China data would be complete. The data relies on the work and confirmation of CSIS. Again . . .

The source cited is reliable. They have on the ground sources in the different countries.When they do not they say so as in China.

If you disagree please document.

There are a number of viruses and diseases in the history of humanity that develop evolved generic resistance such as the development of sickle cell anemia in blacks as resistance to malaria.

[rogue06]

The source cited is reliable. They have on the ground sources in the different countries.When they do not they say so as in China.

If you disagree please document.

The source may be reliable and accurately reporting the numbers they were given. It is the numbers given that I question. I've read before about how, for instance, Vietnam has no idea how severely the pandemic hit them and that there numbers are wholly unreliable.

[shunyadragon]

Of those Southeastern Asian countries, the only one I'd trust at providing accurate numbers is Singapore and the conspicuously absent Taiwan.

The source cited is reliable. They have on the ground sources in the different countries.When they do not they say so as in China.

If you disagree please document.

[rogue06]

Source: https://www.csis.org/programs/southeast-asia-program/projects/southeast-asia-covid-19-tracker

Cases last Deaths Totally % Fully Cases/
24hr Vacc. Vacc. Million
cases

World	196,095,694	538,256	4,189,011	1,106,354,858	14.2%	25,140
China	104,854	53	4,848	No Data	No Data	73
USA	34,677,412	69,090	611,809	163,588,042	49.4%	104,765
Indonesia	3,331,206	43,479	90,552	19,103,162	7.1%	12,268
Philippines	1,566,667	4,247	27,401	6,311,060	6.0%	14,935
Vietnam	123,640	6,519	630	496,630	0.5%	1,294
Thailand	561,030	17,669	4,562	3,652,990	5.3%	8,084
Myanmar	284,099	4,980	8,210	1,527,284	2.9%	5,323
Malaysia	1,078,646	17,170	8,725	6,104,836	19.6%	34,572
Cambodia	75,917	765	1,350	4,626,648	28.9%	4,742
Laos	5,675	241	6	832,673	11.3%	771
Singapore	64,589	136	37	3,158,737	56.3%	11,509
Timor Leste	10,535	148	26	86,759	6.5%	7,863
Brunei	333	0	3	24,052	5.6%	777

© Copyright Original Source

Of those Southeastern Asian countries, the only one I'd trust at providing accurate numbers is Singapore and the conspicuously absent Taiwan.

[shunyadragon]

See the following for a comparison of cases, vaccinated and deaths by country.

https://www.csis.org/programs/southe...vid-19-tracker

[shunyadragon]

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7403102/

Apparent difference in fatalities between Central Europe and East Asia due to SARS-COV-2 and COVID-19: Four hypotheses for possible explanation

Naoki Yamamoto^a,⁎ and Georg Bauer^b,c,⁎

Conclusions

There is no doubt that Central Europe is much more affected by SARS-CoV-2 and COVID-19 than East Asia. The strong difference between East Asia and Central Europe cannot be explained by eventual differences in the frequency of testing, as this would only affect the number of detected cases per inhabitants, but not the number of deaths.

Our four hypothesis raised for possible explanation of the observed facts, i. e. 1) Differences in social behaviors and cultures of people in the two regions; 2) Possible outbreak of virulent viruses in Central Europe due to multiple viral infection, and the involvement of immuno-virological factors associated with it, 3) Possibility of corona resistance gene mutation occurring among East Asians as a result of long-term co-evolution of virus and host, and 4) possible involvement of hygienic factors include cultural and behavioral differences among Central European and East Asian people, virological factors and even anthropological issues involving human evolution.

We are convinced that the behavioral difference in human contact in both areas of the world can be considered to have a very important influence on the spread of the SARS-COV-2, as seen by the impressive positive effect of social distancing on the control of COVID-19 in Europe. This shows that hypothesis # 1 seems to be relevant to a significant degree for the differences between East Asia and Central Europe. However, hypothesis # 1 cannot explain the complete picture observed, as it would only have an impact on the number of cases in relation to the population, but not on the death rate of cases. As the death rates per cases are also lower in East Asia compared to Central Europe, mechanisms suggested in hypothesis # 2–4 might also contribute to the overall effect. In addition, mechanisms not included into our hypothesis might play essential roles and await to be defined in the future.

Essential parts of our hypotheses for which we have no direct supportive information so far can be experimentally verified or falsified in the future. These so far unresolved aspects are i) the possible existence of more virulent strains of SARS-COV-2 in Europe, ii) the effects of repeated infections, possibly in combination with iii) ADE, iv) polymorphism of ACE2 or some other genes such as TMPRSS2 ^[36] and ACE1 ^{[19], [37]}, and their relation to the function of viral receptor.

COVID-19 positive cases are already over 5.3 million even at this point in total while number of people infected with SARS coronavirus-1 was only about 10,000. Considering its near-future expansion in developing areas such as Africa and South America, the new coronavirus may reach an even stronger impact than SARS-CoV-1. Moreover, this coronavirus is very easy to mutate due to its original properties. Taking these facts into account, this SARS-CoV-2 has the potential to persist in every corner of the world, has a great possibility of finding and adapting to the best environment in various climates and people’s lives, and becoming established in human society.

However, the pandemics have taught us some essentials for counteracting in the future. At the beginning of the outbreak of COVID-19 in Europe, the initial response, especially the delay in response to outbreaks (clusters), demographics, social behavior and lower testing capacity, etc. were sometimes very problematic in response to COVID-19. These experiences allowed states that were hit later by the pandemics, like Germany, to adjust countermeasures. In Germany, the federal and local governments have been involved in the fight against COVID-19 from an early stage, and especially with an emphasis on looking for signs of early onset, PCR testing of very large numbers of samples for free, and isolation of defined cases. The medical system had time to be prepared and intensive care beds equipped with artificial respirators were reserved for COVID-19 and increased in number. The needed specialized staff was trained. Social distancing guidelines were introduced and widely followed. This resulted in slow-down of the pandemic.

Therefore, we can be confident, that even if European corona strains were more virulent than Asian strains, or if Europeans were more susceptible to coronaviruses, people can overcome the corona pandemic with proper countermeasures and management.

© Copyright Original Source

[shunyadragon]

So, single anecdote, not peer reviewed.

In any case, people have looked found that the presence of a cross-reactive immune response that's generic for coranaviruses is typical of severe cases - unless it is also accompanied by antibodies specific to SARS-CoV-2.

Peer reviewed research:
https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S...showall%3Dtrue

Source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7796072/

A Southeast Asian Perspective on the COVID-19 Pandemic: Hemoglobin E (HbE)-Trait Confers Resistance Against COVID-19

Abstract

As of November 25, 2020, over 60 million people have been infected worldwide by COVID-19, causing almost 1.43 million deaths. Puzzling low incidence numbers and milder, non-fatal disease have been observed in Thailand and its Southeast (SE) Asian neighbors. Elusive genetic mechanisms might be operative, as a multitude of genetic factors are widely shared between the SE Asian populations, such as the more than 60 different thalassemia syndromes (principally dominated by the HbE trait). In this study, we have plotted COVID-19 infection and death rates in SE Asian (SEA) countries against heterozygote HbE and thalassemia carrier prevalence. COVID-19 infection and death incidence numbers appear inversely correlated with the prevalence of HbE and thalassemia heterozygote populations. We posit that the evolutionary protective effect of the HbE and other thalassemic variants against malaria and the dengue virus may extend its advantage to resistance to COVID-19 infection, as HbE heterozygote population prevalence appears to be positively correlated with immunity to COVID-19. Host immune system modulations induce antiviral interferon responses and alter structural protein integrity, thereby inhibiting cellular access and viral replication. These changes are possibly engendered by HbE carrier miRNAs. Proving this hypothesis is important, as it may shed light on the mechanism of viral resistance and lead to novel antiviral treatments. This development can thus guide decision-making and action to prevent COVID-19 infection.

Conclusions


We theorize that another “Amazing Thailand” attribute [62], an evolutionary HbE variant arising in Thailand through natural selection possibly around 2000 years ago in a malaria-endemic region, might hypothetically be providing its carriers survival advantages with resistance to malaria, dengue virus, and possibly also to COVID-19 infection [63]. Host immune system modulations induce antiviral interferon responses as well as alter structural protein integrity and inhibit cellular access and viral replication. These changes are possibly engendered by HbE/thalassemia carrier miRNAs. Proving the hypothesis is of importance, as it may shed light on the mechanisms of viral resistance and lead to novel antiviral treatments. These developments can guide decision-making and action to prevent COVID-19 infection.

© Copyright Original Source

More to follow

[TheLurch]

Not that easy to find, but nonetheless here is a general article that addresses this. I may post more. I previously cited scientific articles that addressed the issue of a number of viruses where regional populations developed resistance over generations. I believe this may have contributed to the lower infection rates all across East Asia.

So, single anecdote, not peer reviewed.

In any case, people have looked found that the presence of a cross-reactive immune response that's generic for coranaviruses is typical of severe cases - unless it is also accompanied by antibodies specific to SARS-CoV-2.

Peer reviewed research:
https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S...showall%3Dtrue

[shunyadragon]

Ah. Okay then.


I was just asking for the link where you posted it previously.

Not that easy to find, but nonetheless here is a general article that addresses this. I may post more. I previously cited scientific articles that addressed the issue of a number of viruses where regional populations developed resistance over generations. I believe this may have contributed to the lower infection rates all across East Asia.

Source: https://worldcrunch.com/coronavirus/regional-immunity-why-asia-has-avoided-the-worst-of-covid-19

Regional Immunity? Why Asia Has Avoided The Worst Of COVID-19

"However, our patients, who were infected with SARS-CoV-2, immediately show high levels of IgG antibodies and low levels of IgM", explains Tatsuhiko Kodama. "So we deduced that their system reacts as if it had already been attacked in the past by a coronavirus of the same type."

According to the researcher, East Asia populations have therefore naturally developed a form of resistance to SARS-CoV-2. This is because they have already been exposed, over the course of their lives, to a multitude of other less ferocious cousins of the coronavirus. "It's not just MERS or SARS, but many other viruses of a similar type which are circulating," he says. "This explains why the death toll is so low in East Asia."

Carrying this reasoning one step further, other Japanese experts are wondering if this exposure to past epidemics over the course of thousands of years may have generated genetic differences between the inhabitants of Asia and other populations in the rest of the world.

A "Coronavirus Task Force" gathering several universities in the Archipelago thus recovered the data of 500 people who were infected with COVID-19. The team divided this representative sample into two groups: One with people who have developed very serious symptoms and the other with patients who have only experienced very mild symptoms.

The researchers then organized the sequencing of the genomes of all these 500 positive cases. They then compared some of the genes which are involved in the development of a response to the attack of the virus and analyzed the type of the "HLA" of each patient. This group of molecules, which is located on the surface of cells, acts as the control tower of the immune system and is very different from one person to another.

Africans are better protected than Europeans against some types of malaria.

"They are very different in Asians and Caucasians," points out Tasuku Honjo, an immunotherapy specialist who won the Nobel Prize in medicine in 2018. "Yet this group of molecules plays a very important role in the identification of a pathogenic agent." If the Japanese team hasn't yet delivered its conclusions, it thinks it will be able in the coming months to shed some light on the racial factors involved in patients' reactions to the SARS-CoV-2 infection.

For decades, researchers have identified differences in how populations around the world react to certain infectious diseases. "For example, Africans are better protected than Europeans against some types of malaria," argues Lluis Quintana-Murci, population geneticist at the Institut Pasteur and professor at the Collège de France. "Due to natural selection, they have different genetic defense mechanisms," explains the scientist, who adds that current populations, on each continent, descend from multiple generations who have survived past epidemics.

A recent study carried out among the inhabitants of Cape Verde, an island group off the coast of Senegal, has shown that a genetic variant allowing increased resistance to malaria had become common in the population, since Portuguese sailors first established themselves there with African slaves 500 years ago. Half of the inhabitants of the islands now carry a gene variant which helps reduce the amount of receptors that the parasites use to enter the sick person's cells. "Some resistance factors can be part of our genes," Lluis Quintana-Murci says.

Although compelling, this genetic explanation isn't enough in the case of COVID-19, specialists admit. "In order to replicate, viruses must interact with hundreds of genes in the human genome," confirms David Enard of the University of Arizona. The researcher has recently co-authored a large American-Australian study which highlights a relative enrichment of around forty genes which have interacted with coronaviruses in populations of East Asia.

His teams believe that a natural selection, which was triggered 25,000 years ago by a large regional outbreak, caused these changes in East Asia's genetic structures. These modifications aren't present in the genes of populations from other continents. "But we can't conclude that there is a strong difference. These altered genes have very little effect in the whole process. We don't have proof yet of an Asian genetic immunity to COVID-19," insists Enard, who prefers the explanation of an immunity memory that certain populations who have already been exposed to other viruses could have developed.

The researcher hopes that these findings won't be politically misdirected to question the rules of social distancing or the wearing of masks, which have proven to be effective worldwide. "In the end, it will take years of research before we are really able to understand this pandemic," he says.

© Copyright Original Source

[TheLurch]

I documented this in a previous thread and you ignored it and refused to respond.

It's not my job to respond to every instance of saying something that's mistaken on TWeb. You made the argument here again. I responded here. If you don't want to support your own argument, that's your choice, but it means that anyone who reads this will only see the indications i gave of why it's unlikely to be right.

[rogue06]

I did this in detail several references in the past, no response. DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK.

Ah. Okay then.


I was just asking for the link where you posted it previously.

[shunyadragon]

Linky?

I did this in detail several references in the past, no response. DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK.

[rogue06]

I documented this in a previous thread and you ignored it and refused to respond.

Linky?