Announcement

Collapse

Natural Science 301 Guidelines

This is an open forum area for all members for discussions on all issues of science and origins. This area will and does get volatile at times, but we ask that it be kept to a dull roar, and moderators will intervene to keep the peace if necessary. This means obvious trolling and flaming that becomes a problem will be dealt with, and you might find yourself in the doghouse.

As usual, Tweb rules apply. If you haven't read them now would be a good time.

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Which Vaccine

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

    FTR, Drs. Risch and McCullough directly reject the bolded portions in this video clip from around June 29.
    Video clip from FOX nor any other mass media is not reliable,
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Sparko View Post

      Most diseases will evolve to be less deadly, because that way they spread easier and further. Killing off the host is bad business.
      That's what most people think, but it's not entirely true. Killing the host before they spread is bad business. Killing the host after they're already on to a lot of new hosts is fine - see, for example, HIV. SARS-CoV-2 can spread to new hosts even before symptoms appear, and death typically occurs after people are no longer infectious. So, at least at the moment, there's no obvious selective pressure that would cause the virus to be less lethal. Short term, there's been some indication that the pressure was towards enhanced lethality, since higher viral load seems to enhance both infectivity and lethality.

      In the long term, it's going to be pressure to evade a population with an increasingly high percentage of immunity, and it's not clear how the response to that will alter lethality. So the future is very hard to predict here.
      "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Stoic View Post

        Me neither. But I'm also not going to take his word for what conclusions should be drawn from said study.
        Yeah, based on a bit of searching, it appears that these people are the chloroquine crew. Given that nobody's paying any attention to that any more, they seem to have found a new way to raise their profile by arguing with the medical community.
        "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
          That's what most people think, but it's not entirely true. Killing the host before they spread is bad business. Killing the host after they're already on to a lot of new hosts is fine - see, for example, HIV. SARS-CoV-2 can spread to new hosts even before symptoms appear, and death typically occurs after people are no longer infectious. So, at least at the moment, there's no obvious selective pressure that would cause the virus to be less lethal. Short term, there's been some indication that the pressure was towards enhanced lethality, since higher viral load seems to enhance both infectivity and lethality.

          In the long term, it's going to be pressure to evade a population with an increasingly high percentage of immunity, and it's not clear how the response to that will alter lethality. So the future is very hard to predict here.
          It's what happened with the Spanish flu. It was H1N1 virus that is basically still around but not nearly as deadly as it was then.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Sparko View Post

            It's what happened with the Spanish flu. It was H1N1 virus that is basically still around but not nearly as deadly as it was then.
            To be clear, i'm not saying it never happens. I'm saying it's not inevitable.

            I haven't read up on whether current H1N1 strains are descendants of the 1918 pandemic flu, or if they're different branches of that evolutionary tree.

            (Flu virus evolution is complicated in that they've got something like 6 independent pieces of nucleic acid that can randomly assort if one cell is infected by two or more viruses.)
            "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post

              Most diseases will evolve to be less deadly, because that way they spread easier and further. Killing off the host is bad business.
              Yes, McCullough and others have been citing "Muller's ratchet."
              Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

              Beige Federalist.

              Nationalist Christian.

              "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

              Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

              Proud member of the this space left blank community.

              Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

              Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

              Justice for Matthew Perna!

              Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
                Yeah, based on a bit of searching, it appears that these people are the chloroquine crew. Given that nobody's paying any attention to that any more, they seem to have found a new way to raise their profile by arguing with the medical community.
                Yes, Risch and McCullough are both still advocates of HCQ, Ivermectin, etc.
                Geislerminian Antinomian Kenotic Charispneumaticostal Gender Mutualist-Egalitarian.

                Beige Federalist.

                Nationalist Christian.

                "Everybody is somebody's heretic."

                Social Justice is usually the opposite of actual justice.

                Proud member of the this space left blank community.

                Would-be Grand Vizier of the Padishah Maxi-Super-Ultra-Hyper-Mega-MAGA King Trumpius Rex.

                Justice for Ashli Babbitt!

                Justice for Matthew Perna!

                Arrest Ray Epps and his Fed bosses!

                Comment


                • #23
                  Pfizer is announcing that it looks like those who were vaccinated will be needing a booster shot six months or so after being fully vaccinated.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post

                    Yes, Risch and McCullough are both still advocates of HCQ, Ivermectin, etc.
                    . . . which only represent treatments for mild and moderate Covid-19 and do not deal with the elephant in the room the spread of the deadly side of Covid-19 . By the overwhelming evidence vaccines are the only effective preventive solution to Covid-19.

                    https://www.everydayhealth.com/coron...rate-covid-19/
                    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                    go with the flow the river knows . . .

                    Frank

                    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      Pfizer is announcing that it looks like those who were vaccinated will be needing a booster shot six months or so after being fully vaccinated.
                      It's probably going to become the next "flu shot", in that it is going to be available and recommended every year.

                      But I must say, I have not had a cold since I had covid in the spring of 2020. All of the precautions (masking, hand sanitizers) have paid off as far as contracting any bugs. I normally have 1 to 2 colds per year. Just being cautious and aware of what I am touching and how close I am to others is important.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Ronson View Post

                        It's probably going to become the next "flu shot", in that it is going to be available and recommended every year.
                        That was pretty much what the head of J&J was saying a couple months back -- at least for the first couple of years.

                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                          . . . which only represent treatments for mild and moderate Covid-19 and do not deal with the elephant in the room the spread of the deadly side of Covid-19 .
                          To be clear, there's a clear consensus that chloroquine is ineffective. The evidence for ivermectin is currently ambiguous.

                          Anyone who's a "strong advocate" for either of these right now is engaged in just that - advocacy, and not science.
                          "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            Pfizer is announcing that it looks like those who were vaccinated will be needing a booster shot six months or so after being fully vaccinated.
                            The CDC and FDA came out with a statement in response saying a booster's not needed at this point. It's not great messaging at the moment.

                            As i said earlier, i don't think anyone can predict where the virus is going to be a year from now, and a lot will depend on what we do in the mean time.
                            "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
                              Ok, number of things.

                              I think Ronson is thinking of the discussion Rogue and I had about the two vaccines from Chinese companies that are based on inactivated viruses, and don't appear to be nearly as effective as most alternatives. They're not totally worthless, but they are definitely in "must have boosters from some other vaccine" territory.

                              The two mRNA vaccines appear to be effective against all current variants, but only after two doses. J&J takes longer (~6 weeks) after the injection to reach similar levels of protection, and the company released some early data indicating it's effective against the delta variant.

                              J&J does have a very rare blood clotting side effect, same as AstraZenica - not surprising, since they're based on the same technology. AstraZenica's been... weird. The company sent out a press release with numbers that didn't agree with the ones that eventually came out in a peer reviewed study, and it never even tried to get an Emergency Use Authorization in the US. It's probably fine, but it's just a little bit off. Russia's Sputnik also seems to be good, but again, the company's data on it definitely had some oddities.

                              Novavax has also released data that looks very good, and should be available in positively huge quantities by the end of the year, but is only just ramping up. There are a large number of others in various stages of development.

                              As far as we can tell, none of these prevent infections entirely. Instead, the infections are shorter, less likely to be symptomatic, and far less likely to require hospitalization. People who do get infected after vaccination are far less infectious as well. It's also clear that the virus is evolving in a way that allows it to avoid the immune response generated by both prior infections and vaccines. The most dangerous variant circulating currently is delta, and the vaccines all do somewhat worse against that: more symptomatic infections, more hospitalizations, etc. The good vaccines still keep people alive, but the margins of error are getting smaller.

                              The risk of further evolution that cuts down the effectiveness of the vaccines is why nobody's ruling out a need for boosters specifically designed for variants yet. There's also been no indication that the evolution of the virus has made it any less lethal.

                              The most important thing all of us can do is to keep from getting infected. The fewer infections there are anywhere, the smaller the virus population, and the fewer chances the virus will have for further evolution. This is why we should also support our countries' efforts to roll out vaccines globally, even if we're simply selfish about things: it ultimately protects us.
                              One of those "worthless" Chinese vaccines would be CoronaVac, by any chance?

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Ronson View Post
                                OK, I figure my natural immunity is probably worn off by now, or nearly has. I was sick with covid in April/May of 2020, and I would be surprised if it is still potent.

                                So, what is the best, most effective, safest vaccine out there? Anybody?
                                EGGcellent question - you beat me to it!
                                The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                                Comment

                                Related Threads

                                Collapse

                                Topics Statistics Last Post
                                Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, 03-18-2024, 12:15 PM
                                48 responses
                                135 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post Sparko
                                by Sparko
                                 
                                Started by Sparko, 03-07-2024, 08:52 AM
                                16 responses
                                74 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post shunyadragon  
                                Started by rogue06, 02-28-2024, 11:06 AM
                                6 responses
                                48 views
                                0 likes
                                Last Post shunyadragon  
                                Working...
                                X