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Thanks for the moon

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  • #16
    Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post

    Source: space.com

    The moon has long been recognized as a significant stabilizer of Earth's orbital axis. Without it, astronomers have predicted that Earth's tilt could vary as much as 85 degrees. In such a scenario, the sun would swing from being directly over the equator to directly over the poles over the course of a few million years, a change which could result in dramatic climatic shifts.

    Source

    © Copyright Original Source


    Dramatic climatic shifts such as happened to Mars, which would indeed make earth difficult for many, or even most forms of life.
    First of all, this is a misdirection, because you're ignoring that most species on earth are bacteria. The statement is wrong if this change doesn't kill them, and it wouldn't. So it's a lie.

    No, that's completely unlike what happened to Mars, where the climate changed in one direction and then stayed there, and its atmosphere largely vanished.

    And happening gradually over millions of years gives life lots of time for life to adjust for it. Would it make things difficult for some species? Absolutely. Would it "wipe out nearly all forms of life"? Absolutely not.

    Why are you so keen on defending a blatant lie?
    "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
      First of all, this is a misdirection, because you're ignoring that most species on earth are bacteria. The statement is wrong if this change doesn't kill them, and it wouldn't. So it's a lie.

      No, that's completely unlike what happened to Mars, where the climate changed in one direction and then stayed there, and its atmosphere largely vanished.

      And happening gradually over millions of years gives life lots of time for life to adjust for it. Would it make things difficult for some species? Absolutely. Would it "wipe out nearly all forms of life"? Absolutely not.

      Why are you so keen on defending a blatant lie?
      The loss of nearly all the atmosphere and with it almost all the water, would probably be the most detrimental. Of course, largely thanks to Earth's powerful magnetic core, our atmosphere can withstand the constant force of the solar winds from blowing it away. That was how Mars lost their atmosphere. While Mars does have a magnetic core it is a comparably much weaker one, and proved insufficient in shielding the planet's atmosphere even though the planet is considerably further away from the Sun than Earth is.

      So the worst problem that would have faced any theoretical Martian lifeform, the loss of nearly all atmosphere and water[1] have nothing to do with Mars not having a sufficiently large moon in orbit around it. IOW, Lee using Mars as an example is basically irrelevant.

      In any case I suppose the next thread in Lee's series will be Thanks for a magnetic core.








      1. of course this process likely took over a long period of time allowing the organisms at least the possibility of evolving a way to adapt to their ever increasingly scarce atmosphere and the moisture it shielded. Of course that does not mean that they did evolve a means as the history of extinctions demonstrates.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
        First of all, this is a misdirection, because you're ignoring that most species on earth are bacteria.
        I would say one form of life would be bacteria, so we're not counting species of bacteria.

        No, that's completely unlike what happened to Mars, where the climate changed in one direction and then stayed there, and its atmosphere largely vanished.
        It would be similar, says the source. "Mars' tilt has more variation than Earth's, wobbling by tens of degrees over a100,000-year cycle, which can produce even more dramatic changes in climate."

        And happening gradually over millions of years gives life lots of time for life to adjust for it. Would it make things difficult for some species? Absolutely. Would it "wipe out nearly all forms of life"? Absolutely not.
        Extinction events would say otherwise: "It has been estimated that during these events, about 50% of the animal species on the Earth ceased to exist."

        Blessings,
        Lee
        "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
          I would say one form of life would be bacteria, so we're not counting species of bacteria.
          That is akin to saying that animals are one form of life or that plants are one form of life, which while true seems like you're trying to dismiss it as insignificant. Bacteria accounts for 15% of the total biomass on the planet. That may not sound like much but that is three times as much as all other non-plant forms of life combined.

          Taxonomically speaking bacteria constitutes a domain. That is the ranking above kingdom -- as in the animal kingdom or plant kingdom.




          Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
          Extinction events would say otherwise: "It has been estimated that during these events, about 50% of the animal species on the Earth ceased to exist."
          ​​​​​​​That actually sounds like a low estimate. But you do understand that 50% is in no way equivalent to "nearly all forms of life," correct? And that they didn't all die as the result of a single cause but died out for different reasons over the course of many hundreds of millions of years.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
            I would say one form of life would be bacteria, so we're not counting species of bacteria.
            Yeah, that's a garbage justification for a terrible argument. The largest, most diverse group on Earth, at a higher taxonomic level than all plants, all animals, or all fungi, and you want to dismiss it as "one form of life". Why? Only because it's convenient for your argument.

            You'd say water is dry if it were convenient for your argument. Because, fundamentally, you're that dishonest.

            Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
            It would be similar, says the source. "Mars' tilt has more variation than Earth's, wobbling by tens of degrees over a100,000-year cycle, which can produce even more dramatic changes in climate."
            No, it would not be similar. Earth's tilt would relocate habitable areas of the planet. Mars' tilt relocates uninhabitable areas of the planet. From the perspective of the persistence of life, the two could not be more dissimilar.

            Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
            Extinction events would say otherwise: "It has been estimated that during these events, about 50% of the animal species on the Earth ceased to exist."
            The assumption here, which is completely unsupported, is that the slow and gradual axial tilts would cause a mass extinction. You have no evidence that's the case. Once again, all you have is what you want to believe, and you want to pretend everyone here should treat your beliefs as fact.

            Your beliefs are consistently ill informed, so nobody has any reason to do that.

            Once again, i have to ask: why are you so committed to defending a lie? What is wrong with your character?
            "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by TheLurch View Post


              Once again, i have to ask: why are you so committed to defending a lie? What is wrong with your character?
              I'm not convinced it is lying per se, but rather it appears to be a raging case of DK on steroids.

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                I'm not convinced it is lying per se, but rather it appears to be a raging case of DK on steroids.
                I was referring to the original source of the "most life on earth", not Lee.

                I don't comprehend Lee's mental processes well enough to know whether he's lying.
                "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  That is akin to saying that animals are one form of life or that plants are one form of life, which while true seems like you're trying to dismiss it as insignificant. Bacteria accounts for 15% of the total biomass on the planet. That may not sound like much but that is three times as much as all other non-plant forms of life combined.

                  Taxonomically speaking bacteria constitutes a domain. That is the ranking above kingdom -- as in the animal kingdom or plant kingdom.
                  Yes, but I was thinking of what people would think of as "forms of life", which would not correspond directly to a taxonomic ranking.

                  That actually sounds like a low estimate. But you do understand that 50% is in no way equivalent to "nearly all forms of life," correct? And that they didn't all die as the result of a single cause but died out for different reasons over the course of many hundreds of millions of years.
                  I would expect that the 50% represents 50% at a time, per event. And an axis tilt would induce dramatic climate change, as in the case of Mars.

                  Blessings,
                  Lee
                  "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                    Because the moon is rare, possibly even unique!

                    Source: space.com

                    Earth's Stabilizing Moon May Be Unique Within Universe

                    New simulations show that Earth's moon is not only unique in the solar system, but may also be rare throughout the universe.

                    Research reveals that less than 10 percent of terrestrial planets may have a satellite large enough to provide the stability life needs to develop.

                    Source

                    © Copyright Original Source



                    Blessings,
                    Lee
                    With at trillions of solar systems in only our immediate galaxy corner of a vast universe, made up of at least millions of galaxies, not unique at all. All of pretty much all possible planets have moons just as all stars have planets.
                    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeareís Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                    go with the flow the river knows . . .

                    Frank

                    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                      With at trillions of solar systems in only our immediate galaxy corner of a vast universe, made up of at least millions of galaxies, not unique at all. All of pretty much all possible planets have moons just as all stars have planets.
                      Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_analog#:~:text=On%20November%204%2C%202013%2C%20astronomers,be%2012%20light%2Dyears%20away.



                      On November 4, 2013, astronomers reported, based on Kepler space mission data, that there could be as many as 40 billion Earth-sized planets orbiting in the habitable zones of Sun-like stars and red dwarf stars within the Milky Way Galaxy. The nearest such planet may be 12 light-years away.

                      In September 2020, astronomers identified 24 superhabitable planet (planets better than Earth) contenders, from among more than 4000 confirmed exoplanets at present, based on astrophysical parameters, as well as the natural history of known life forms on the Earth.

                      © Copyright Original Source




                      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeareís Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                      go with the flow the river knows . . .

                      Frank

                      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                        Yes, but I was thinking of what people would think of as "forms of life", which would not correspond directly to a taxonomic ranking.


                        I would expect that the 50% represents 50% at a time, per event. And an axis tilt would induce dramatic climate change, as in the case of Mars.

                        Blessings,
                        Lee
                        We've had mass extinctions several times in the past (the one ending the "reign of the dinosaurs" being the best known one), although the one marking the end of the Permian and beginning of the Jurassic being the most severe. As Wiki explains:

                        It is the Earth's most severe known extinction event, with the extinction of 57% of biological families, 83% of genera, 81% of marine species[8][9][10] and 70% of terrestrial vertebrate species.[11] It was the largest known mass extinction of insects.


                        But you seem to think that there is no recovery between theses extinctions. That if say 50% of life is extinguished as a result, then when the next one comes around what remained after the last one is what is around for this one.

                        No.

                        There has been massive radiations among the survivors as they move into now empty ecological niches and begin forming new species etc. IOW, the planet will be just as full of life as it was prior to the last mass extinction.

                        Further, as TL has explained, you appear to have a poor grasp on how this would work. A lot would depend on how slowly or rapidly such an axis tilt would occur.

                        Finally, if there was a mass extinction as a result, then after it took place life would adapt to it just like it adapted after all the other mass extinctions.

                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                          But you seem to think that there is no recovery between theses extinctions.
                          No, that's not true.

                          A lot would depend on how slowly or rapidly such an axis tilt would occur.
                          If it's like Mars, dramatic climate changes are expected.

                          Finally, if there was a mass extinction as a result, then after it took place life would adapt to it just like it adapted after all the other mass extinctions.
                          As in the inexplicable Cambrian explosion!

                          Blessings,
                          Lee
                          "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                            With at trillions of solar systems in only our immediate galaxy corner of a vast universe, made up of at least millions of galaxies, not unique at all. All of pretty much all possible planets have moons just as all stars have planets.
                            But how many planets have earth-like moons? It seems these are rare.

                            Blessings,
                            Lee
                            "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                              But how many planets have earth-like moons? It seems these are rare.

                              Blessings,
                              Lee
                              No, considering the numbers of possible earth like in the billions galaxies present, and billions of more throughout the history of a universe billions of years old. The odds are,of course, 100% for number of possible planets enough like ours to have life like ours.
                              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeareís Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                              go with the flow the river knows . . .

                              Frank

                              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                                But how many planets have earth-like moons? It seems these are rare.

                                Blessings,
                                Lee
                                Even if incredibly rare, given the number of galaxies and the number of stars within each galaxy that have planets, it is fairly safe to conclude that there are literally millions of them.

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

                                Comment

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