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Recent Covid-19 infections and the unvaccinated

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  • TheLurch
    replied
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    The Chinese vaccine seems to have achieved one thing. It allows the Chicoms to say that they developed their own vaccine.
    China bet big on inactivated viruses as their vaccine technology - both of their first two out the door used this approach. And, as it turns out, it doesn't seem to be an effective one against SARS-CoV-2.

    EDIT: the other problem is that these were tested against the initial circulating strains, and seemed good enough - over 50% efficacy. Now they're facing evolved strains, and good enough isn't.
    Last edited by TheLurch; 06-08-2021, 08:54 AM.

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  • Sparko
    replied
    I think the vaccines work against the variants so far because they specifically teach the body to attack the spike proteins, rendering the virus inert. If the spike protein were to mutate too much, then the virus would be unable to infect our cells. The spike's purpose is to unlock the cell membrane to allow the virus inside the cell to infect it. So most mutations we have seen don't really change the spike protein much because if they did, it wouldn't be able to infect us.

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  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
    So far, yes. There are some variants where you're more likely to get a low-severity infection, but the good vaccines still protect against severe COVID. (Again, Sinovac seems terrible against everything.)
    The Chinese vaccine seems to have achieved one thing. It allows the Chicoms to say that they developed their own vaccine.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheLurch
    replied
    Originally posted by Ronson View Post

    Then the vaccine does train the immune system to respond to variants?
    So far, yes. There are some variants where you're more likely to get a low-severity infection, but the good vaccines still protect against severe COVID. (Again, Sinovac seems terrible against everything.)

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  • Ronson
    replied
    Originally posted by Stoic View Post

    Antibodies that attach to the spike protein are more protective than antibodies that attach somewhere else on the virus, since the spike protein is key to how the virus attaches itself to and invades cells. The vaccines train the immune system with the spike protein only.
    Then the vaccine does train the immune system to respond to variants?

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  • TheLurch
    replied
    Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
    In light of the parts I bolded, you are actually supporting those of us who prefer to wait -- even as much as years -- for more data.
    Well, it shouldn't. All of the ingredients in the RNA vaccine - lipids, RNA, etc. - are also present in everything you eat. But if you don't like those, just go for the J&J or AstraZenica vaccines, which are similar to things already in use. By a week after any of these vaccines, the only thing left is the immune response. If you're worried about that having long-term consequences of an immune response, you should really never leave the house.

    There's never zero uncertainty about anything. It would be nice to think i could acknowledge that without someone leaping on it and saying "SEE!"

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  • NorrinRadd
    replied
    Originally posted by TheLurch View Post

    No, but there's not really any known mechanism by which they can have long term effects other than the immunity they generate. If there is something, it occurs by a mechanism we are completely unaware of.
    In light of the parts I bolded, you are actually supporting those of us who prefer to wait -- even as much as years -- for more data.

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  • Stoic
    replied
    Originally posted by Ronson View Post
    That's counter intuitive. Unless these vaccines have a mechanism involved that tricks a person's immune system into fighting off variants, I don't understand how it can be more effective.
    Antibodies that attach to the spike protein are more protective than antibodies that attach somewhere else on the virus, since the spike protein is key to how the virus attaches itself to and invades cells. The vaccines train the immune system with the spike protein only.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheLurch
    replied
    Originally posted by Ronson View Post

    That's counter intuitive. Unless these vaccines have a mechanism involved that tricks a person's immune system into fighting off variants, I don't understand how it can be more effective.
    SARS-2 has proteins that function to tone down or disable aspects of the immune response. The vaccines don't have those, so they generate a more robust immune response.

    Originally posted by Ronson View Post
    As far as influencing intent, in my case, that is affected more by the abbreviated testing these vaccines underwent. There is no replacing time when it comes to evaluating complications that may arise later.
    No, but there's not really any known mechanism by which they can have long term effects other than the immunity they generate. If there is something, it occurs by a mechanism we are completely unaware of.

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  • Ronson
    replied
    Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
    Immunity generated by infection seems to be less robust than most vaccines. (About 70-80% as effective as the good vaccines, although far better than the bad ones like Sinovac, and the picture with variants is complicated). As such, the US is recommending that everyone gets vaccinated, even if you've had a SARS-2 infection.
    That's counter intuitive. Unless these vaccines have a mechanism involved that tricks a person's immune system into fighting off variants, I don't understand how it can be more effective.

    I'm not aware of any source of vaccination data that breaks out previously infected individuals, though, or how having had a past infection influences intent to get vaccinated. So, all i can say at this point is that the previously infected are contributing towards herd immunity, and contributing even more if they've gotten vaccination as well.
    As far as influencing intent, in my case, that is affected more by the abbreviated testing these vaccines underwent. There is no replacing time when it comes to evaluating complications that may arise later.

    But, having said this, I'll probably get the vaccine in the coming months. I figure the initial covid I contracted has mutated by now to undermine my immunity.

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  • rogue06
    replied
    Getting the first Pfizer shot the 28th.

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  • TheLurch
    replied
    Originally posted by Ronson View Post

    Your article completely ignores the percentage of people who already had covid and should have natural immunity. How do they factor in?
    Immunity generated by infection seems to be less robust than most vaccines. (About 70-80% as effective as the good vaccines, although far better than the bad ones like Sinovac, and the picture with variants is complicated). As such, the US is recommending that everyone gets vaccinated, even if you've had a SARS-2 infection.

    I'm not aware of any source of vaccination data that breaks out previously infected individuals, though, or how having had a past infection influences intent to get vaccinated. So, all i can say at this point is that the previously infected are contributing towards herd immunity, and contributing even more if they've gotten vaccination as well.

    Leave a comment:


  • Ronson
    replied
    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
    Statistics is showing that by far the majority of new casws, hospitalizations and deargs are those that are not vaccinated or fully vaccinated.
    Your article completely ignores the percentage of people who already had covid and should have natural immunity. How do they factor in?

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  • Roy
    replied
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    where's the herd immunity?
    Non-existent until vaccination reaches 75-80%.

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  • rogue06
    replied
    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
    where's the herd immunity?
    Haven't you heard?

    Leave a comment:

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