Originally posted by Stoic
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Recent Covid-19 infections and the unvaccinated
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Originally posted by Ronson View Post
Then the vaccine does train the immune system to respond to variants?
"Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."
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Originally posted by TheLurch View PostSo far, yes. There are some variants where you're more likely to get a low-severity infection, but the good vaccines still protect against severe COVID. (Again, Sinovac seems terrible against everything.)
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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I think the vaccines work against the variants so far because they specifically teach the body to attack the spike proteins, rendering the virus inert. If the spike protein were to mutate too much, then the virus would be unable to infect our cells. The spike's purpose is to unlock the cell membrane to allow the virus inside the cell to infect it. So most mutations we have seen don't really change the spike protein much because if they did, it wouldn't be able to infect us.
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostThe Chinese vaccine seems to have achieved one thing. It allows the Chicoms to say that they developed their own vaccine.
EDIT: the other problem is that these were tested against the initial circulating strains, and seemed good enough - over 50% efficacy. Now they're facing evolved strains, and good enough isn't.Last edited by TheLurch; 06-08-2021, 08:54 AM."Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostI think the vaccines work against the variants so far because they specifically teach the body to attack the spike proteins, rendering the virus inert. If the spike protein were to mutate too much, then the virus would be unable to infect our cells. The spike's purpose is to unlock the cell membrane to allow the virus inside the cell to infect it. So most mutations we have seen don't really change the spike protein much because if they did, it wouldn't be able to infect us.
Of course with reports of those seeking vaccinations dropping sharply in recent weeks (probably assuming they no longer need one), we might be experiencing another wave of the Chicom coronavirus before too long.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostI think the vaccines work against the variants so far because they specifically teach the body to attack the spike proteins, rendering the virus inert. If the spike protein were to mutate too much, then the virus would be unable to infect our cells. The spike's purpose is to unlock the cell membrane to allow the virus inside the cell to infect it. So most mutations we have seen don't really change the spike protein much because if they did, it wouldn't be able to infect us.
There's the worry that some combination of mutations exists that does avoid prior immune responses but still functions for cell entry. That's why getting more people vaccinated will remain a high priority even if we get an effective herd immunity. Having the virus circulating in either unvaccinated populations here or in foreign countries without good vaccine access leaves the door open for additional mutations.
"Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."
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Originally posted by TheLurch View PostChina bet big on inactivated viruses as their vaccine technology - both of their first two out the door used this approach. And, as it turns out, it doesn't seem to be an effective one against SARS-CoV-2.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
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Originally posted by TheLurch View PostThis is a pretty accurate simplification.
There's the worry that some combination of mutations exists that does avoid prior immune responses but still functions for cell entry. That's why getting more people vaccinated will remain a high priority even if we get an effective herd immunity. Having the virus circulating in either unvaccinated populations here or in foreign countries without good vaccine access leaves the door open for additional mutations.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostA very good reason why open borders is not a good policy
Overall, i'd rather see strong international vaccination programs."Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."
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Originally posted by Ronson View Post
That's counter intuitive. Unless these vaccines have a mechanism involved that tricks a person's immune system into fighting off variants, I don't understand how it can be more effective.
https://stm.sciencemag.org/content/e...nslmed.abi9915"Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."
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Originally posted by TheLurch View PostWell, shutting down all international travel indefinitely (which would be what's needed) has its own costs. And, given that vaccinations in the US appear likely to plateau in the 75% range, we'd have to be prepared for countries to refuse anyone entry from here, as well.
Overall, i'd rather see strong international vaccination programs.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
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Originally posted by Ronson View PostThen the vaccine does train the immune system to respond to variants?
And by 'good enough', I mean that once enough people have gained (partial) immunity, the probability of transmission is low enough that the number of cases decreases.
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostI'm talking more about turning your back on tens of thousands of people crossing the border illegally. If the government willfully turns a blind eye to that international air travel won't matter.
Most of the areas with out of control spread of late have been nowhere near our borders, in any case."Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."
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So this study shows that there is no benefit for previously infected people to get the vaccine.
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....01.21258176v2
Background The purpose of this study was to evaluate the necessity of COVID-19 vaccination in persons previously infected with SARS-CoV-2.
Results Among the 52238 included employees, 1359 (53%) of 2579 previously infected subjects remained unvaccinated, compared with 22777 (41%) of 49659 not previously infected. The cumulative incidence of SARS-CoV-2 infection remained almost zero among previously infected unvaccinated subjects, previously infected subjects who were vaccinated, and previously uninfected subjects who were vaccinated, compared with a steady increase in cumulative incidence among previously uninfected subjects who remained unvaccinated. Not one of the 1359 previously infected subjects who remained unvaccinated had a SARS-CoV-2 infection over the duration of the study. In a Cox proportional hazards regression model, after adjusting for the phase of the epidemic, vaccination was associated with a significantly lower risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection among those not previously infected (HR 0.031, 95% CI 0.015 to 0.061) but not among those previously infected (HR 0.313, 95% CI 0 to Infinity).
Conclusions Individuals who have had SARS-CoV-2 infection are unlikely to benefit from COVID-19 vaccination, and vaccines can be safely prioritized to those who have not been infected before.
No mention of different strains though.
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