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This is an open forum area for all members for discussions on all issues of science and origins. This area will and does get volatile at times, but we ask that it be kept to a dull roar, and moderators will intervene to keep the peace if necessary. This means obvious trolling and flaming that becomes a problem will be dealt with, and you might find yourself in the doghouse.

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  • #46
    Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
    No, it's not misrepresenting evolution, it's saying "let's give evolution full credit for being able to develop wings."
    Yes, while doing exactly what Cow Poke said you're doing - misrepresenting the gradual process by which wings evolved.

    Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
    But an almost-wing is not useful for flying, so selection would be for different capacities.
    Wrong. Simply wrong.

    A wing that's able to glide will subject to some of the same selective pressures that a wing that can fly would be.

    And, as numerous examples of gliding animals, with and without wings, have been presented in this thread now, so you have no excuse for not acknowledging it. Other than you're so in love with your ideas that you can't see past them, or, as Rogue suggests, you're just a troll.

    Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
    But humans don't rely on instinct as much as birds do..
    And here we have the typical Lee behavior when his arguments don't have any supporting evidence: make something up. Lee doesn't know this, because nobody really knows this. It's still an area of active research and debate.

    But Lee thinks it'll support his argument, so he'll say it and then hope to be able to find evidence for it later. We've seen it time and time again, and it's incredibly dishonest.

    Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
    No, I would agree that learning to stand upright is part of learning to walk. And both of these seem to be partially instinctual in toddlers.
    So, learning to stand upright is part of learning to walk, but learning to flap wings is not part of learning to fly?

    You'll say anything, no matter how nonsensical, in order to pursue an argument won't you?
    "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by HMS_Beagle View Post
      Not enough facepalms for all Lee's failures.
      Also, seriously quite squirrel.
      "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by TheLurch View Post

        Also, seriously quite squirrel.
        That was supposed to be cute.

        I think my typos are getting worse.
        "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by TheLurch View Post
          That was supposed to be cute.

          I think my typos are getting worse.
          FYI. Never use squirrels or squirrely as a pejorative when I'm around. Members of the dauntless Ninja Squirrel Assassins (NSA) often see them as well and won't hesitate to send out a squad to swap your big toes around while you sleep. Keep in mind, they work very closely with Squirrel Girl who has bested both Thanos and Galactus.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

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          • #50
            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            FYI. Never use squirrels or squirrely as a pejorative when I'm around. Members of the dauntless Ninja Squirrel Assassins (NSA) often see them as well and won't hesitate to send out a squad to swap your big toes around while you sleep. Keep in mind, they work very closely with Squirrel Girl who has bested both Thanos and Galactus.
            Secret Squirrel > Squirrel Girl
            “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

            -Ghandi (Disputed)

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Diogenes View Post

              Secret Squirrel > Squirrel Girl
              The actual Secret Squirrel was a member of the NSA way back when and they enjoy watching the heavily fictionalized accounts of his exploits during their off time while enjoying the occasional Hickory Nut Ale. Morocco Mole is entirely a made up character.

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                The actual Secret Squirrel was a member of the NSA way back when and they enjoy watching the heavily fictionalized accounts of his exploits during their off time while enjoying the occasional Hickory Nut Ale. Morocco Mole is entirely a made up character.
                So the NSA doesn't collaborate with the Directorate of Mole Intelligence, 6th Division (MI6)?
                “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

                -Ghandi (Disputed)

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                  FYI. Never use squirrels or squirrely as a pejorative when I'm around. Members of the dauntless Ninja Squirrel Assassins (NSA) often see them as well and won't hesitate to send out a squad to swap your big toes around while you sleep. Keep in mind, they work very closely with Squirrel Girl who has bested both Thanos and Galactus.
                  I am the only person i know who has been struck by a falling squirrel.

                  To be clear: it was not a flying squirrel. It just fell off a roof.
                  "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from trolling."

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Diogenes View Post

                    So the NSA doesn't collaborate with the Directorate of Mole Intelligence, 6th Division (MI6)?
                    The Ninja Squirrel Assassins never "collaborate" with anyone although that doesn't mean they won't work with them.

                    And the character Morocco Mole was completely fictional. Please note that MI6 didn't officially exist until the mid 1990s and "Secret Squirrel" (real name Chxtiik Tekkix-ti) was active in the 1950s with his exploits being fictionalized during the mid 1960s.

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      https://web.archive.org/web/20130727...assassins.com/

                      If you're curious about context, in the TV series Psych there was a gag where a character made that website, and they put it on the web in real life. (eventually got taken down, though, hence the archive)

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by lee_merrill
                        Well, you need basically full wings to glide.
                        ...
                        Well, I don't mean that only wings enable gliding...
                        Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                        I meant you can't glide with limbs that are developing into wings, but aren't there yet.
                        I see. So you meant that only full wings enable gliding, but didn't mean that only wings enable gliding.

                        You meant that you can't glide with things that aren't wings (yet), but you can glide with things that aren't wings (yet).

                        Of course you're completely wrong about not being able to glide without basically full wings, as demonstrated by flying squirrels, phalaropes, flying fish, flying snakes, gliding frogs and many other animals, but you're sticking to that incorrect view anyway.



                        Jorge: Functional Complex Information is INFORMATION that is complex and functional.

                        mikewhitney: What if the speed of light changed when light is passing through water? ... I have 3 semesters of college Physics.

                        Mountain Man: First of all, the Bible is a fixed document.
                        Mountain Man: … this is how liberals argue these days, with labels instead of ideas.
                        Mountain Man on covid-19: We're talking about an illness with a better than 99.9% rate of survival.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                          I meant you can't glide with limbs that are developing into wings, but aren't there yet.

                          Blessings,
                          Lee
                          Many species of pre-avian dinosaurs were gliders with feathers.
                          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeareís Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                          go with the flow the river knows . . .

                          Frank

                          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post

                            Many species of pre-avian dinosaurs were gliders with feathers.
                            With varying degrees of success at it.

                            I'm always still in trouble again

                            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by lee_merrill View Post
                              But flying is much more complex, to take off, you have to jump and flap vigorously...
                              Not necessarily. You could climb a tree to gain height and then jump off. Proto-wings could help you glide to the next tree without having to come down to the ground, thus avoiding all those nasty ground based predators.
                               

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by rossum View Post

                                Not necessarily. You could climb a tree to gain height and then jump off. Proto-wings could help you glide to the next tree without having to come down to the ground, thus avoiding all those nasty ground based predators.
                                They seem to be primarily used to escape threats in the tree they're in, like snakes.

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization thatís not the argument." --Tassman

                                Comment

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