Specimen of T-Rex's ancestor discovered in Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil.

[Andius]

A Femur of this very old of therapod discovered in southern Brazil by Rodrigo Temp Muller amazed me recently. He published his finding on the Journal of South American Earth Sciences. Admittedly I get thrilled when Latins contribute to the Natural Sciences.
https://vanguardia.com.mx/articulo/e...annosaurus-rex

in English: https://www.express.co.uk/news/scien...jacuiensis-evg

And considering how bits of Erythrovenator jacuiensis have been discovered in that area in Rio Grande do Sul, it is my professional opinion that T-Rex's old ancestor danced Samba.

[Andius]

And in my haste and excitement, I forgot to include "T-Rex's ancestor", now in my noobishness, I can seem to be able to find how (if possible) to fix the title.

[rogue06]

rogue powaz activate!

Form of a title change!

---

Tyrannosaurids have been found in a bunch of places including Asia^[1] -- from Thailand (Siamotyrannus) to Mongolia (Tarbosaurus and others) and west to Uzbekistan (Timurlengia) -- Europe (Eotyrannus), Australia (still unnamed), South America (Santanaraptor and now Erythrovenator, both from Brazil), and of course North America, with the vast majority found in the Western U.S. and Canada, all the way to the North Slope of Alaska (Nanuqsaurus). A few have been found in the Eastern U.S., which was separated from the West by a seaway stretching to the Arctic (Dryptosaurus and Appalachiosaurus (the latter found in Alabama and Georgia).




1. where they likely originated




And I feel honored to make it into your signature area although the link is wrong (https://theologyweb.com/campus/forum...59#post1210559).

[rogue06]

Here's the Abstract from the paper A new theropod dinosaur from a peculiar Late Triassic assemblage of southern Brazil

The early evolution of theropod dinosaurs is poorly understood. Whereas sauropodomorphs are well-known from the oldest dinosaur bearing outcrops, the record of theropods is fragmentary and ambiguous. The Triassic deposits from Brazil yielded some of the oldest dinosaurs worldwide. These dinosaurs came from two distinct Assemblage Zones (AZ): the Hyperodapedon AZ (Carnian) and the Riograndia AZ (early Norian). Here, a specimen previously assigned to cf. Dinosauromorpha is reassessed. CAPPA/UFSM 0157 comes from an enigmatic assemblage with predominance of the traversodotind cynodont Siriusgnathus. This assemblage has been tentatively assigned to the Riograndia AZ. However, the absence of index fossils still hampers a reliable assignation. The specimen, which comprises a proximal portion of a left femur, belongs to a new theropod taxon erected here as Erythrovenator jacuiensis gen. et sp. nov. The new dinosaur differs from all other known Triassic dinosaurs based on the absence of a raised dorsolateral trochanter of the femur. Erythrovenator jacuiensis gen. et sp. nov. is regarded as a theropod on the basis of the pyramidal shape of the anterior trochanter in anterior view. The results of a phylogenetic analysis corroborate this assignation. Therefore, the new dinosaur represents one of the oldest theropod dinosaurs worldwide, shedding lights on some of the earliest theropod features. Finally, the new specimen also represents the first carnivorous dinosaur from the assemblage dominated by the traversodontid cynodont Siriusgnathus, increasing our knowledge of the faunal content of this enigmatic assemblage.

You can request the full paper in pdf format from the author at the above link

[Andius]

rogue powaz activate!

Form of a title change!

---

My man... you're miracle worker you.

Tyrannosaurids have been found in a bunch of places including Asia^[1] -- from Thailand (Siamotyrannus) to Mongolia (Tarbosaurus and others) and west to Uzbekistan (Timurlengia) -- Europe (Eotyrannus), Australia (still unnamed), South America (Santanaraptor and now Erythrovenator, both from Brazil), and of course North America, with the vast majority found in the Western U.S. and Canada, all the way to the North Slope of Alaska (Nanuqsaurus). A few have been found in the Eastern U.S., which was separated from the West by a seaway stretching to the Arctic (Dryptosaurus and Appalachiosaurus (the latter found in Alabama and Georgia).




1. where they likely originated

Ah, so it is the popular thing then. Incredible how far out Tyrannosaurids spread!

And I feel honored to make it into your signature area although the link is wrong (https://theologyweb.com/campus/forum...59#post1210559).

One could be that precise in linking?? Intriguing... and much appreciated. Of course I will wear it as a badge of honor! Heheheh.

[Andius]

Here's the Abstract from the paper A new theropod dinosaur from a peculiar Late Triassic assemblage of southern Brazil

The early evolution of theropod dinosaurs is poorly understood. Whereas sauropodomorphs are well-known from the oldest dinosaur bearing outcrops, the record of theropods is fragmentary and ambiguous. The Triassic deposits from Brazil yielded some of the oldest dinosaurs worldwide. These dinosaurs came from two distinct Assemblage Zones (AZ): the Hyperodapedon AZ (Carnian) and the Riograndia AZ (early Norian). Here, a specimen previously assigned to cf. Dinosauromorpha is reassessed. CAPPA/UFSM 0157 comes from an enigmatic assemblage with predominance of the traversodotind cynodont Siriusgnathus. This assemblage has been tentatively assigned to the Riograndia AZ. However, the absence of index fossils still hampers a reliable assignation. The specimen, which comprises a proximal portion of a left femur, belongs to a new theropod taxon erected here as Erythrovenator jacuiensis gen. et sp. nov. The new dinosaur differs from all other known Triassic dinosaurs based on the absence of a raised dorsolateral trochanter of the femur. Erythrovenator jacuiensis gen. et sp. nov. is regarded as a theropod on the basis of the pyramidal shape of the anterior trochanter in anterior view. The results of a phylogenetic analysis corroborate this assignation. Therefore, the new dinosaur represents one of the oldest theropod dinosaurs worldwide, shedding lights on some of the earliest theropod features. Finally, the new specimen also represents the first carnivorous dinosaur from the assemblage dominated by the traversodontid cynodont Siriusgnathus, increasing our knowledge of the faunal content of this enigmatic assemblage.

You can request the full paper in pdf format from the author at the above link

Huh, didn't know it was already publicly available. Thanks man!
How how I love Researchgate. Made scholarly research ever much easier. (Although I must admit, I am an utter noob in comprehending the terminology, especially in biology and zoology).

[TheLurch]

Huh, didn't know it was already publicly available. Thanks man!
How how I love Researchgate. Made scholarly research ever much easier. (Although I must admit, I am an utter noob in comprehending the terminology, especially in biology and zoology).

I read scientific papers for a living, and paleontology is just the worst. So many, many latin terms for phylogenetic groups, anatomical features, etc. etc., none of them explained in the text - you have to know these things to make sense of it, even though "these things" may involve bones that only exist in a small group of species that have all been extinct for 130 million years. They make my head hurt.

In other words, don't feel bad about struggling with terminology.

As for the find itself, South America's had a lot of amazing dinosaur species discovered in the last couple of decades, including the largest land animals ever to have existed. If this is a source of regional pride for you, enjoy it.

[rogue06]

I read scientific papers for a living, and paleontology is just the worst. So many, many latin terms for phylogenetic groups, anatomical features, etc. etc., none of them explained in the text - you have to know these things to make sense of it, even though "these things" may involve bones that only exist in a small group of species that have all been extinct for 130 million years. They make my head hurt.

In other words, don't feel bad about struggling with terminology.

As for the find itself, South America's had a lot of amazing dinosaur species discovered in the last couple of decades, including the largest land animals ever to have existed. If this is a source of regional pride for you, enjoy it.

Awhile back (probably pre-crash in the Fossil Finds thread) I posted something from Robert T. Bakker (one of the very few paleontologists that can be recognized on sight) complaining about all of the technical jargon employed in his field and wishing they'd just speak more clearly.

[Andius]

I read scientific papers for a living, and paleontology is just the worst. So many, many latin terms for phylogenetic groups, anatomical features, etc. etc., none of them explained in the text - you have to know these things to make sense of it, even though "these things" may involve bones that only exist in a small group of species that have all been extinct for 130 million years. They make my head hurt.

For real? Even amongst the seasoned experts there can be trouble on the excessive use of technical terms? Craaaazzy man.


I do must concede that technical jargon is necessary to actually make efficient communication, a point I learned and appreciated by a Youtuber well versed in philosophy called Jonas Čeika when addressing why philosophers (especially modern ones) are so difficult to understand. After all, research papers are fundamentally written for other researchers. But surprising to see when excessive jargon becomes too obscure even for the experts themselves.

In other words, don't feel bad about struggling with terminology.

Heheheh, thanks. To be honest. As I have increased by Latin vocabulary (studying it in my free time), it's fun when I can actually recognize Latin words in there, albeit heavily mixed with Greek. In this case, the "venator" in Erythrovenator (Latin for hunter, quite fitting, heheh). Paleontologists just love them classic heleno-latin when naming old animals.

As for the find itself, South America's had a lot of amazing dinosaur species discovered in the last couple of decades, including the largest land animals ever to have existed. If this is a source of regional pride for you, enjoy it.

Indeed. And I do enjoy it, even if Latin contributions are small admittedly. But something is something, especially when it involves, if indirectly, the popular Tyrannosaurus Rex.

[rogue06]

Heheheh, thanks. To be honest. As I have increased by Latin vocabulary (studying it in my free time), it's fun when I can actually recognize Latin words in there, albeit heavily mixed with Greek. In this case, the "venator" in Erythrovenator (Latin for hunter, quite fitting, heheh). Paleontologists just love them classic heleno-latin when naming old animals.

They also like to use the names of people who initially found the fossils, who's research was instrumental, or honoring a scientist who recently passed. And a lot of them utilize words from the language of the local people. Further, some even use the names of famous entertainers, especially musical groups or individuals.

An example of the latter that springs to mind would be Mesoparapylocheles michaeljacksoni -- the name given to a 100 myo extinct species of hermit crab. It was discovered on the day that the scientists discovered that the pop star had died.

Another would be Jaggermeryx naida, an extinct relative of modern hippopotami named after Rolling Stones lead singer Mick Jagger because apparently it had several foramina (openings) located on the anterior surface of the mandible (lower jaw) which indicate that it would have possessed large sensitive lips.

[Andius]

They also like to use the names of people who initially found the fossils, who's research was instrumental, or honoring a scientist who recently passed. And a lot of them utilize words from the language of the local people. Further, some even use the names of famous entertainers, especially musical groups or individuals.

Craaazzyyy, especially the entertainers bit. And every now and then (now that I recall), fictional creatures as well, heheheheh. Pokemon to be specific.:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/shaenam...h=1e8d34294cf7

An example of the latter that springs to mind would be Mesoparapylocheles michaeljacksoni -- the name given to a 100 myo extinct species of hermit crab. It was discovered on the day that the scientists discovered that the pop star had died.

Another would be Jaggermeryx naida, an extinct relative of modern hippopotami named after Rolling Stones lead singer Mick Jagger because apparently it had several foramina (openings) located on the anterior surface of the mandible (lower jaw) which indicate that it would have possessed large sensitive lips.

Both of those made me giggle, heheheheh. But if one is the discoverer, any name is legit, heheheh, especially the Jagger Hippo.



So that means that Rogue06saurus or Rogue06iensis is still up for grabs eh?

[rogue06]

I mentioned naming a discovery after a recently deceased scientist and afterwards I read about the death of William "Bill" Clemens last month who... well I'll let Wikipedia handle that

William Alvin Clemens Jr. (15 May 1932— 17 November 2020)^[1] was a paleontologist at the University of California at Berkeley. He was on the faculty of the Department of Integrated Biology since 1994, and since 1967 in the Department of Paleontology (now part of the Department of Integrative Biology) and the UC Museum of Paleontology. Clemens was also director of the museum (1987–1989) and chair of the Department of Paleontology (1987–1989). He has been awarded a Guggenheim Fellowship (1974–75), a U.S. Senior Scientist Award by the Alexander von Humboldt Foundation, the Romer-Simpson Medal (2006),^[2] and was made a Fellow of the California Academy of Sciences.

They left out that he was also professor emeritus of integrative biology when he passed. As wiki notes he focused on "the evolution of mammals in the Mesozoic Era" and I'll add that much of his work was done in the Hell's Creek Formation in Montana.

I only bring this up because I'd be willing to wager that one of the next discoveries of the remains of a previously unknown type of mammal discovered from that time, and especially if found in that area, will be named in his honor.