Is the Earth Flat? - Some Evidence Presented

[Sparko]

Local aether flow in relation to a rotating universe. The other cloud masses do not rotate because of a lack of local aether flow.

JM

how does that work? show me evidence of this and explain the patterns. just saying "aether" is a non answer, basicaaly an appeal to magic.


And how come we can't feel, see, or detect this aether, yet it is powerful enough to push air and clouds around, and even suns and planets?

[oxmixmudd]

I cant believe what I am seeing. Jim makes these claims and yet after 629 posts there is nothing here to undermine the flat earth claims concerning being able to see long distances beyond that predicted of a global earth model.

JM

Says the Black Knight after having lost both arms and legs.

[oxmixmudd]

JM -- note that this is not consistent with your spherical Earth strawman.

John, you don't have even one clue what is consistent with ANY of these topics.

Jim

[Jedidiah]

flat earth.jpg

[Juvenal]

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What fantasy is this?

Everyone knows there's no lake. It's turtles all the way down.

[Raphael]

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That's an Australian turtle, which may explain a few things

[JohnMartin]

For at least the sixth time, on a spherical Earth "straight down" is determined by the gravity vector which is perpendicular to the surface tangent plane. And "level" means parallel to the tangent plane (or equivalently, perpendicular to the gravity vector.)

Sheesh...

You say - "straight down" is determined by the gravity vector which is perpendicular to the surface tangent plane.

But you ignore the substance of the problem which is this - both the gravity vector and the tangent plane change orientation whilst the 747 travels over the earth's curved surface. These changes occur because the 747 is flying along, over the arc and hence over the sagitta. Your geometry of the perpendicular gravity vector to the tangent plane implies an arc is included/assumed in the planes flight calcs. But these calcs also infer a maths arc and a maths sagitta, which is ignored when the 747 reaches cruise altitude in the real flight.

Calcs imply a sagitta. The real flight implies the flight ignores the sagitta. The calcs are over a maths, global earth and the real flight is over a real flat earth. 747 flights are evidence for a flat earth.

JM

[JohnMartin]

No.

False. On a globe the flight is perpendicular to the gravity vector, which changes orientation relative to the earth. The change in orientation of the gravity vector implies an arc, which implies a sagitta. The flights cruise at uniform altitude because the earth does not have a change in orientation of the gravity vector, nor an arc, nor a sagitta.

JM

Relative to Earth the gravity vector is always perpendicular. To an observer in space the vector would appear to rotate. Find a ball and on run your finger around it all the while keeping it perpendicular to the surface. Whadda ya see?

A small Gedanken: In similar way, if one were to observe Earth from a distance with north "up", you Kiwis would appear to be upside-down (kinda like your philosophy!)

Frames of reference are not your thing.

The gravity vector changes orientation relative to the earth because the 747 flies over the earths surface. As the earth has a north and south pole, and E-W directions, then as the 747 moves, the gravity vector changes orientation relative to N,S,E,W on the earth. As the gravity vector changes orientation relative to the earth, the 747 travels over the sagitta. Off course the sagitta does not exist in the real flight, hence the appeal to gravity vector perpendicular to a tangential surface is merely a global earth assumption.

JM

[JohnMartin]

how does that work? show me evidence of this and explain the patterns. just saying "aether" is a non answer, basicaaly an appeal to magic.

And how come we can't feel, see, or detect this aether, yet it is powerful enough to push air and clouds around, and even suns and planets?

Wrong thread. I've given you an answer, now you give me your answer as you promised.

JM

[Sparko]

That's an Australian turtle, which may explain a few things

˙ɹǝʇʇǝq sn puɐʇsɹǝpun uɐɔ uɥoſ os uʍop ǝpᴉsdn ǝʇᴉɹʍ oʇ pǝǝu ǝʍ ǝqʎɐW

[Sparko]

Wrong thread. I've given you an answer, now you give me your answer as you promised.

JM

You gave no answer. Just did a "magic aether" handwave and dismissed the problem. But here is the answer anyway. The Coriolis effect on weather patterns is usually only apparent in detail in storms like hurricanes because they contain much more energetic wind patterns. The rising hot air over a large distance on the surface of the earth will begin to swirl due to the different speeds that the atmosphere is moving on a round earth at different latitudes. Without such strong wind anomalies the atmosphere moves with the earth at the same speed as the surface at different latitudes and thus you don't notice the Coriolis effect (although if you watch large enough cloud patterns you will still see a slow rotation as they move around with the earth, counterclockwise in the north, clockwise in the south.

[klaus54]

You say - "straight down" is determined by the gravity vector which is perpendicular to the surface tangent plane.

But you ignore the substance of the problem which is this - both the gravity vector and the tangent plane change orientation whilst the 747 travels over the earth's curved surface. These changes occur because the 747 is flying along, over the arc and hence over the sagitta. Your geometry of the perpendicular gravity vector to the tangent plane implies an arc is included/assumed in the planes flight calcs. But these calcs also infer a maths arc and a maths sagitta, which is ignored when the 747 reaches cruise altitude in the real flight.

Calcs imply a sagitta. The real flight implies the flight ignores the sagitta. The calcs are over a maths, global earth and the real flight is over a real flat earth. 747 flights are evidence for a flat earth.

JM

Of course they change direction from an outside frame of reference.

Soccer ball --> finger perpendicular to ball --> move finger around keeping it perpendicular to ball all the while. From your finger's perspective it is always perpendicular, it's always point straight down.

There are no "sagitta" in a constant altitude flight path!

Man, this is SO simple...

[klaus54]

The gravity vector changes orientation relative to the earth because the 747 flies over the earths surface. As the earth has a north and south pole, and E-W directions, then as the 747 moves, the gravity vector changes orientation relative to N,S,E,W on the earth. As the gravity vector changes orientation relative to the earth, the 747 travels over the sagitta. Off course the sagitta does not exist in the real flight, hence the appeal to gravity vector perpendicular to a tangential surface is merely a global earth assumption.

JM

Gravity vector always points toward Earth's center of mass, so the Earth interior end is fixed. The (cruising) aircraft is at the other end and always remains perpendicular to the vector.

Finger, soccer ball -- try it!

Or just do a trivial Gedanken.

[Faber]

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nq160217.gif

[JohnMartin]

Of course they change direction from an outside frame of reference.

Soccer ball --> finger perpendicular to ball --> move finger around keeping it perpendicular to ball all the while. From your finger's perspective it is always perpendicular, it's always point straight down.

There are no "sagitta" in a constant altitude flight path!

Man, this is SO simple...

Even in the 747 reference frame the curved earth would rise and fall over the sagitta. If the earth does not rise and fall relative to the 747, then the sagitta does not exist relative to the 747. The gravity vector only remains perpendicular to the 747 if the 747 is really rising and falling over the sagitta. If the 747 is not passing over the sagitta, then the perpendicular gravity vector is only perpendicular to the 747 which is flying over the earth as a flat surface.

Your answer ignores the ever changing earth angle under the 747 as the 747 flies over the curved surface. The changing earth angle under the 747 requires the 747 to be guided around the curved earth. As this does not happen, then the flight show the earth is flat.

JM