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Camels in Genesis

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Outis View Post
    "Ignoring or discounting relevant evidence."
    Are my skills with English that poor?

    But wouldn't that indicate bias towards a position?
    -The universe begins to look more like a great thought than a great machine.
    Sir James Jeans

    -This most beautiful system (The Universe) could only proceed from the dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being.All variety of created objects which represent order and Life in the Universe could happen only by the willful reasoning of its original Creator, whom I call the Lord God.
    Sir Isaac Newton

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Quantum Weirdness View Post
      But wouldn't that indicate bias towards a position?
      Possibly. It can also indicate ignorance, either of existence or of the relevance of that evidence. How am I to tell which it is?

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Outis View Post
        Possibly. It can also indicate ignorance, either of existence or of the relevance of that evidence. How am I to tell which it is?
        Wouldn't there be a bias in the sense that you are not looking for all the evidence and stopped at the point where it confirmed your position?
        -The universe begins to look more like a great thought than a great machine.
        Sir James Jeans

        -This most beautiful system (The Universe) could only proceed from the dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being.All variety of created objects which represent order and Life in the Universe could happen only by the willful reasoning of its original Creator, whom I call the Lord God.
        Sir Isaac Newton

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Quantum Weirdness View Post
          Wouldn't there be a bias in the sense that you are not looking for all the evidence and stopped at the point where it confirmed your position?
          No.

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          • #50
            Having read countless articles by Glenn Miller, I remember more than a few pieces in which he's gone back and included objections and pushbacks that arose after he published his initial arguments. He even completely took down a section of his article on the dating of Daniel and intends to re-write it. To me, he's established a good enough track record that I feel warranted in believing that he didn't and doesn't dishonestly work with data. If he's truly missed something, I can believe that he either 1) genuinely was unaware, or 2) has answered it somewhere else.
            Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

            I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

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            • #51
              Selective actually means choosing evidence based on its relevance, as when writing a paper that cannot contain all available evidence so one selects the most relevant for inclusion. Biased means choosing evidence based on one's preference rather than relevance.

              Ignoring archeological evidence because you prefer paleo evidence is an example of bias. Not including bone studies in a paper on artifacts would be an example of selection. Context matters.
              "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

              "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

              My Personal Blog

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              • #52
                It is generally accepted by academics that Exodus was written at some time after 1000 BCE. All this does is add confirmation to the fact that yes, it was written between about 1000 BCE and ~600 BCE.
                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                Frank

                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                  It is generally accepted by academics that Exodus was written at some time after 1000 BCE. All this does is add confirmation to the fact that yes, it was written between about 1000 BCE and ~600 BCE.
                  Agreed, though I will note that the putative absence of camels is quite a ways down the list of arguments used to support the late date of the Torah.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Outis View Post
                    Agreed, though I will note that the putative absence of camels is quite a ways down the list of arguments used to support the late date of the Torah.
                    Agreed! Some one out there wanted kick up some dust, and a little publicity.
                    Last edited by shunyadragon; 02-13-2014, 07:48 PM.
                    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                    go with the flow the river knows . . .

                    Frank

                    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Outis View Post
                      Not particularly.
                      Ok so since this article wasn't particularly selective, what do you think of the arguments presented there?
                      -The universe begins to look more like a great thought than a great machine.
                      Sir James Jeans

                      -This most beautiful system (The Universe) could only proceed from the dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being.All variety of created objects which represent order and Life in the Universe could happen only by the willful reasoning of its original Creator, whom I call the Lord God.
                      Sir Isaac Newton

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Quantum Weirdness View Post
                        Ok so since this article wasn't particularly selective, what do you think of the arguments presented there?
                        Considering that the Torah was compiled sometime between the 8th and 4th centuries bce, the arguments presented here are utterly irrelevant. Even if domesticated camels had been present during the time proposed for the lives of Abraham, there is so much evidence against an early composition (and so much evidence against any sort of historical accuracy) that the arguments presented here, if they were correct, mean absolutely nothing as compared to the body of scholarship.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Outis View Post
                          Considering that the Torah was compiled sometime between the 8th and 4th centuries bce, the arguments presented here are utterly irrelevant. Even if domesticated camels had been present during the time proposed for the lives of Abraham, there is so much evidence against an early composition (and so much evidence against any sort of historical accuracy) that the arguments presented here, if they were correct, mean absolutely nothing as compared to the body of scholarship.
                          Ok so what about the date of the domestication of the camels?
                          -The universe begins to look more like a great thought than a great machine.
                          Sir James Jeans

                          -This most beautiful system (The Universe) could only proceed from the dominion of an intelligent and powerful Being.All variety of created objects which represent order and Life in the Universe could happen only by the willful reasoning of its original Creator, whom I call the Lord God.
                          Sir Isaac Newton

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Quantum Weirdness View Post
                            Ok so what about the date of the domestication of the camels?
                            Already commented on that: while this is the earliest they have discovered, what happens if there are more skeletons out there that have not been discovered? I understand that this is the earliest they've seen in what is now Israel, but I still want to know why they assume these were the first?

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Outis View Post
                              Already commented on that: while this is the earliest they have discovered, what happens if there are more skeletons out there that have not been discovered? I understand that this is the earliest they've seen in what is now Israel, but I still want to know why they assume these were the first?
                              Despite the fact that something may be found in the future, the lack of evidence of any camels present in ALL the immediate cultures, ie Canaanite, it can pretty well concluded that camels were not yet domesticated in this region until after 1000 BC. Actually the dating of the research is more specific to the 7th century BCE.
                              Last edited by shunyadragon; 02-14-2014, 09:48 AM.
                              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                              go with the flow the river knows . . .

                              Frank

                              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Outis View Post
                                Considering that the Torah was compiled sometime between the 8th and 4th centuries bce, ....
                                In your humble opinion, right?
                                That's what
                                - She

                                Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                                - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                                I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                                - Stephen R. Donaldson

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