// Required code

Announcement

Collapse

Archeology 201 Guidelines

If Indiana Jones happened to be a member of Tweb, this is where he'd hang out.

Welcome to the Archeology forum. Were you out doing some gardening and dug up a relic from the distant past? would you like to know more about Ancient Egypt? Did you think Memphis was actually a city in Tennessee?

Well, for the answers to those and other burning questions you've found the right digs.

Our forum rules apply here too, if you haven't read them now is the time.

Forum Rules: Here
See more
See less

Sodom and Gomorrah Discovered

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Sodom and Gomorrah Discovered

    This is pretty old, but since no one has posted it yet: http://www.biblearchaeology.org/post...-Gomorrah.aspx

    Unless anyone can find a discrepancy, I'd say the case is pretty much settled. It's found in the same place as described in the Bible, and went through the exact same stuff as described in the Bible.
    Better to illuminate than merely to shine, to deliver to others contemplated truths than merely to contemplate.

    -Thomas Aquinas

    I love to travel, But hate to arrive.

    -Hernando Cortez

    What is the good of experience if you do not reflect?

    -Frederick 2, Holy Roman Emperor

  • #2
    You say this is pretty old. No serious challenge to it yet? Or would you know of any if published in some arcane journal or something like that?
    The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

    [T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by TimelessTheist View Post
      since no one has posted it yet
      More like it was posted and discussed on the old TWeb and lost in the crash.
      I'm not here anymore.

      Comment


      • #4
        .....this thread dead already?
        Better to illuminate than merely to shine, to deliver to others contemplated truths than merely to contemplate.

        -Thomas Aquinas

        I love to travel, But hate to arrive.

        -Hernando Cortez

        What is the good of experience if you do not reflect?

        -Frederick 2, Holy Roman Emperor

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by TimelessTheist View Post
          .....this thread dead already?
          Old news. The city or cities perished from natural causes.
          Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
          Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
          But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

          go with the flow the river knows . . .

          Frank

          I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
            Old news. The city or cities perished from natural causes.
            That theory is refuted in the article, by the fact that the fires started on the roofs of the buildings, and worked their way down. Perhaps you should actually read it?
            Better to illuminate than merely to shine, to deliver to others contemplated truths than merely to contemplate.

            -Thomas Aquinas

            I love to travel, But hate to arrive.

            -Hernando Cortez

            What is the good of experience if you do not reflect?

            -Frederick 2, Holy Roman Emperor

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by TimelessTheist View Post
              That theory is refuted in the article, by the fact that the fires started on the roofs of the buildings, and worked their way down. Perhaps you should actually read it?
              Read it, no problem. Why would fires starting on the roof of the building be a problem with natural causes? When there are fires it is the timbers and thatch roofs that burn. not the mud and stone walls.

              I have no problem with the evidence that the cities were most likely destroyed by earthquakes, landslides, possible geologic liquification and possible explosions of venting natural gas. It would be common for people of the time who witnessed this would attribute these events to supernatural causes.
              Last edited by shunyadragon; 05-24-2014, 10:02 PM.
              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

              go with the flow the river knows . . .

              Frank

              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                Read it, no problem. Why would fires starting on the roof of the building be a problem with natural causes? When there are fires it is the timbers and thatch roofs that burn. not the mud and stone walls.

                I have no problem with the evidence that the cities were most likely destroyed by earthquakes, landslides, possible geologic liquification and possible explosions of venting natural gas. It would be common for people of the time who witnessed this would attribute these events to supernatural causes.
                If the fires started on the roofs, and not on the ground or walls, working their way up to the roofs, then you've just proven the Biblical account correct. There's no natural means that could have set the roofs on fires first, not to mention all of them, almost instantaneously.
                Better to illuminate than merely to shine, to deliver to others contemplated truths than merely to contemplate.

                -Thomas Aquinas

                I love to travel, But hate to arrive.

                -Hernando Cortez

                What is the good of experience if you do not reflect?

                -Frederick 2, Holy Roman Emperor

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by TimelessTheist View Post
                  If the fires started on the roofs, and not on the ground or walls, working their way up to the roofs, then you've just proven the Biblical account correct. There's no natural means that could have set the roofs on fires first, not to mention all of them, almost instantaneously.
                  No, the Biblical account is not necessarily correct, because natural causes are very possible. First there is no direct evidence the fire actually started on the roof. The paper only described the properties of several buildings. The roofs were made of timbers and thatch. The roof materials burned, the walls did not. The walls were made of mud, mortar and stone. The explosions of venting gas from the earthquake remain a likely scenario. There is evidence of large earthquakes and landslides.

                  Proven??? Nothing in reality is proven here. ancient cities were found in the region where the Sodom and Gomorrah story was described. They very well may be cities (towns?) victims of the same disasters that befell the cities of the Biblical accounts. It is never been a problem that many of the accounts of events in the Bible are related to actual events, but it is a stretch to conclude that the evidence necessarily leads to a supernatural cause as described in the Bible.

                  Why would the evidence indicate a supernatural cause for the devastation of the cities as described in the Bible?
                  Last edited by shunyadragon; 05-25-2014, 07:12 AM.
                  Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                  Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                  But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                  go with the flow the river knows . . .

                  Frank

                  I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                    No, the Biblical account is not necessarily correct, because natural causes are very possible. First there is no direct evidence the fire actually started on the roof. The paper only described the properties of several buildings. The roofs were made of timbers and thatch. The roof materials burned, the walls did not. The walls were made of mud, mortar and stone. The explosions of venting gas from the earthquake remain a likely scenario. There is evidence of large earthquakes and landslides.

                    Proven??? Nothing in reality is proven here. ancient cities were found in the region where the Sodom and Gomorrah story was described. They very well may be cities (towns?) victims of the same disasters that befell the cities of the Biblical accounts. It is never been a problem that many of the accounts of events in the Bible are related to actual events, but it is a stretch to conclude that the evidence necessarily leads to a supernatural cause as described in the Bible.

                    Why would the evidence indicate a supernatural cause for the devastation of the cities as described in the Bible?
                    1) If it was a giant explosion of natural gas, as you say, the entire house should have been encased in flames instantaneously, not the roofs, and then worked its way down to the rest of the house.

                    2) The evidence that the roofs caught on fire first is, once again, in the article. Perhaps you should actually read it this time?

                    3) The data says the two cities were destroyed, in the same manner, almost instantaneously. There's no way a natural gas explosion could have done that. The researchers know this, and that's why they try to assert that the destruction was at the hands of humans (which is also refuted in the article).
                    Better to illuminate than merely to shine, to deliver to others contemplated truths than merely to contemplate.

                    -Thomas Aquinas

                    I love to travel, But hate to arrive.

                    -Hernando Cortez

                    What is the good of experience if you do not reflect?

                    -Frederick 2, Holy Roman Emperor

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Maybe in a natural gas explosion, many buildings were leveled or partially leveled at and near the locus of the explosion? I.e., there should be evidence of a natural gas explosion that does not appear with just fire raining down from the heavens.
                      The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

                      [T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
                        Maybe in a natural gas explosion, many buildings were leveled or partially leveled at and near the locus of the explosion? I.e., there should be evidence of a natural gas explosion that does not appear with just fire raining down from the heavens.
                        The Natural Gas explosion of this type does not necessarily occur at one location like a bomb. The gas escapes spreads and then explodes when ignited possibly a number of smaller explosions and fires. The earthquake and landslide can level many buildings. The possibility of liquefaction during the earthquake is another possibility that can level large areas of cities as commonly observed in earthquakes over time. The evidence of this type of natural gas explosion could be multiple explosions from the spread of natural gas from vents, and would simply be the observed destruction by fire. buildings not destroyed by the earthquake, and landslides would be destroyed by fire. It is also the fires may have been started when the roofs collapsed in cooking fires.
                        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                        go with the flow the river knows . . .

                        Frank

                        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The gas escapes spreads and then explodes when ignited possibly a number of smaller explosions and fires.
                          Really, over two cities?

                          The earthquake and landslide can level many buildings.
                          This is relevant how?

                          The possibility of liquefaction during the earthquake is another possibility that can level large areas of cities as commonly observed in earthquakes over time.
                          Once again, how is this relevant? The houses were burned down.

                          It is also the fires may have been started when the roofs collapsed in cooking fires.
                          What does this even mean? Are you saying that the cooking fires caught the roofs on fire?
                          Better to illuminate than merely to shine, to deliver to others contemplated truths than merely to contemplate.

                          -Thomas Aquinas

                          I love to travel, But hate to arrive.

                          -Hernando Cortez

                          What is the good of experience if you do not reflect?

                          -Frederick 2, Holy Roman Emperor

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by TimelessTheist View Post
                            Really, over two cities?
                            Yes, When the earthquakes occur in the region, gas venting can occur over the region of the earthquake. The gas deposits underlie the whole region of the Dead Sea Basin. Actually there are more and most including these cites? are more like towns.



                            This is relevant how?
                            The earthquake and landslide can level many buildings, and the fires can burn the roof materials after they collapse.



                            Once again, how is this relevant? The houses were burned down.
                            True. So what? the fires likely have a natural cause. Oakum's razor rules!

                            What does this even mean? Are you saying that the cooking fires caught the roofs on fire?
                            The houses collapsed in the earthquakes and mudslides. Actually the evidence is clear, they collapsed. There is no evidence that the fires started before they collapsed. There is evidence of massive earthquake and landslides.

                            Source: http://www.haaretz.com/archaeology/.premium-1.569560



                            Natural disaster, not hand of God?

                            If the city-kingdoms did in fact exist, those unconvinced by a literalist reading of scripture suspect their end was brought about by an indiscriminate natural disaster, not a targeted genocide perpetrated by a puritanical being upstairs. Geologists such as Frederick G. Clapp, then Graham Harris and Anthony Beardow, posit that that the Dead Sea region, perched on top of the tectonic boundary between the Arabian and African Plates as it is, was struck by a massive earthquake that fits the relevant timeframe.

                            Analysis of rock faces, crushed skeletal remains and scientific simulations lend credence to the possibility that a quake liquefied the ground, igniting underground methane and the region’s abundant bitumen deposits, and possibly caused a catastrophic landslide. Latter-day drilling has found oil and gas in the region's rocks, if not in commercial quantities.

                            Harris and Beardow concluded that the most likely location of the ruins is under the shallow waters of the southern Dead Sea.

                            © Copyright Original Source

                            Last edited by shunyadragon; 05-26-2014, 10:48 PM.
                            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                            go with the flow the river knows . . .

                            Frank

                            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Yes, When the earthquakes occur in the region, gas venting can occur over the region of the earthquake. The gas deposits underlie the whole region of the Dead Sea Basin. Actually there are more and most including these cites? are more like towns.
                              Once again, if that were the case, the entire buildings of the cities should have been incinerated all at once, which the archaeological data says is not true.

                              The earthquake and landslide can level many buildings, and the fires can burn the roof materials after they collapse
                              Save for the fact that the data shows that the roofs caught on fire first, and that the buildings collapsed 'because' of that.

                              True. So what? the fires likely have a natural cause. Oakum's razor rules!
                              I'm not sure what "Oakum's" Razor is, exactly.

                              The houses collapsed in the earthquakes and mudslides. Actually the evidence is clear, they collapsed. There is no evidence that the fires started before they collapsed. There is evidence of massive earthquake and landslides.
                              The evidence is listed, and sourced in the article. Sorry, but the article you cited isn't even talking about the site elaborated upon in the article I cited, heck, it isn't even talking about a specific site, at all.
                              Better to illuminate than merely to shine, to deliver to others contemplated truths than merely to contemplate.

                              -Thomas Aquinas

                              I love to travel, But hate to arrive.

                              -Hernando Cortez

                              What is the good of experience if you do not reflect?

                              -Frederick 2, Holy Roman Emperor

                              Comment

                              widgetinstance 221 (Related Threads) skipped due to lack of content & hide_module_if_empty option.
                              Working...
                              X