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Confirmations of the New Testament

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  • Confirmations of the New Testament


    This video covers evidence that the New Testament is written accurately by eyewitnesses, confirmed by secular writers, archaeology, and cultural details that we know about from other sources. For example, it discusses the authenticity of the ossuary of James, the brother of Jesus, and the accuracy of saying 4 drachmas equals one shekel.

    Blessings,
    Lee
    Last edited by lee_merrill; 08-17-2019, 03:03 PM.
    "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

  • #2
    I will take a close look, but all this has been here before, but it is understood by all that the Bible is set in history and contains historical facts like all ancient documents. It does not lead to the conclusion that the NT was written by eye witnesses.
    Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
    Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
    But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

    go with the flow the river knows . . .

    Frank

    I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

    Comment


    • #3
      The historical writings of China are considered more accurate than the West, including a very accurate description and dating and description of the greatest catastrophic river flood in Chinese history before written records were known, but they still report dragons, and supernatural occurrences.
      Last edited by shunyadragon; 08-18-2019, 05:41 PM.
      Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
      Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
      But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

      go with the flow the river knows . . .

      Frank

      I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

      Comment


      • #4
        So, handwave followed by handwave. Keep up the good fight, shunya.
        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
        sigpic
        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
          … it is understood by all that the Bible is set in history and contains historical facts like all ancient documents. It does not lead to the conclusion that the NT was written by eye witnesses.
          Well, you need to address the points made in the video that the NT was written by eyewitnesses.

          The historical writings of China are considered more accurate than the West...
          Yet Luke has been proven over and over again to be an accurate historian. And does China show that the NT is inaccurate? No.

          Blessings,
          Lee
          "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

          Comment


          • #6
            Presupposition is not disproof.

            "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot


            "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

            My Personal Blog

            My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
              I will take a close look, but all this has been here before, but it is understood by all that the Bible is set in history and contains historical facts like all ancient documents. It does not lead to the conclusion that the NT was written by eye witnesses.
              And it cannot confirm the *theological* claims of the NT, which are what really matter. It is small gain to know that Pontius Pilate occupied the position assigned him by the NT, if the theological claims of the NT are not true. It is their truth that is of crucial importance.
              Last edited by Rushing Jaws; 08-18-2019, 08:25 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                So, handwave followed by handwave. Keep up the good fight, shunya.
                I have listened to the video, and yes all the points brought up in the video have been addressed in other threads throughout the history of Tweb. Again, it is recognized that the Bible is set in history, and historical accuracy of some facts does not make the NT a first recorded and witnessed account of the life of Jesus.

                All the historians cited recorded third hand information. This is well known.
                Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                go with the flow the river knows . . .

                Frank

                I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Rushing Jaws View Post
                  And it cannot confirm the *theological* claims of the NT, which are what really matter. It is small gain to know that Pontius Pilate occupied the position assigned him by the NT, if the theological claims of the NT are not true. It is their truth that is of crucial importance.
                  OK from the perspective of the believer, but not the subject of the thread.
                  Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                  Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                  But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                  go with the flow the river knows . . .

                  Frank

                  I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                    I have listened to the video...
                    But did you watch the audio?



                    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                      I have listened to the video, and yes all the points brought up in the video have been addressed in other threads throughout the history of Tweb. Again, it is recognized that the Bible is set in history, and historical accuracy of some facts does not make the NT a first recorded and witnessed account of the life of Jesus.

                      All the historians cited recorded third hand information. This is well known.
                      Ooh, hand waving at length! More better!

                      It is important that the NT be recognized as factually accurate and in line with what historians of the period wrote, because that calls into serious question the allegation that people freely made wholesale changes to the text until the fourth century. Historians writing at third hand is immaterial given their independence from the NT record. Do you have a legitimate point to make somewhere?
                      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                      sigpic
                      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                        Ooh, hand waving at length! More better!

                        It is important that the NT be recognized as factually accurate and in line with what historians of the period wrote, because that calls into serious question the allegation that people freely made wholesale changes to the text until the fourth century. Historians writing at third hand is immaterial given their independence from the NT record. Do you have a legitimate point to make somewhere?
                        Whole sale changes? There is absolutely no objective verifiable evidence that any of the gospels were written at the time of Jesus Christ by eye witnesses. Simply, again . . . the historians cited at the time were giving third hand accounts, and yes the accounts by Josephus are obviously edited, and added. We have no originals of Josephus's works. The argument in the video is that the third hand accounts provided by the historians and others are evidence for the gospels being written as first hand eye witness accounts of the life of Jesus, and of course, as with all history, historians will not accept this. When correlated with archaeological evidence contemporary historians will support a degree of reliability. There are absolutely no archaeological evidence. first hand accounts, nor writings made for the life of Jesus, dated to the time he lived.
                        Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                        Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                        But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                        go with the flow the river knows . . .

                        Frank

                        I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                          Whole sale changes? There is absolutely no objective verifiable evidence that any of the gospels were written at the time of Jesus Christ by eye witnesses.
                          No, they were written about a generation later. There is also no objective verifiable evidence that any of the gospels were NOT written by eyewitnesses.
                          Simply, again . . . the historians cited at the time were giving third hand accounts, and yes the accounts by Josephus are obviously edited, and added. We have no originals of Josephus's works. The argument in the video is that the third hand accounts provided by the historians and others are evidence for the gospels being written as first hand eye witness accounts of the life of Jesus, and of course, as with all history, historians will not accept this. When correlated with archaeological evidence contemporary historians will support a degree of reliability. There are absolutely no archaeological evidence. first hand accounts, nor writings made for the life of Jesus, dated to the time he lived.
                          Get back to me when you can set a reasonable standard for evidence (and accurately portray what you're citing, while you're at it). Yours tosses out nearly all of recorded history.
                          Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                          Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                          sigpic
                          I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                            No, they were written about a generation later. There is also no objective verifiable evidence that any of the gospels were NOT written by eyewitnesses.
                            Arguing from the negative is not a coherent argument. It is up to the one proposing an argument to provide the evidence.

                            Get back to me when you can set a reasonable standard for evidence (and accurately portray what you're citing, while you're at it). Yours tosses out nearly all of recorded history.
                            No, history is not dependent on the necessity of the claim of eyewitness and ancient histories vary in their accuracies, and historians have no problem with this, it is acknowledges that history is a work in progress in progress. The provenance of historical accuracy depends on corresponding archaeological, available written records most often not eyewitness accounts. The claim in this thread is that there are first hand eyewitnesses that wrote the gospels.
                            Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                            Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                            But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                            go with the flow the river knows . . .

                            Frank

                            I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
                              We have no originals of Josephus's works.
                              What about the Arabic version that was cited in the video? That might clear up the confusion.

                              The argument in the video is that the third hand accounts provided by the historians and others are evidence for the gospels being written as first hand eye witness accounts of the life of Jesus …
                              What evidence do you have that these accounts are third hand, though? Josephus died about 100 CE, for instance.

                              Blessings,
                              Lee
                              "What I pray of you is, to keep your eye upon Him, for that is everything. Do you say, 'How am I to keep my eye on Him?' I reply, keep your eye off everything else, and you will soon see Him. All depends on the eye of faith being kept on Him. How simple it is!" (J.B. Stoney)

                              Comment

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