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Giant Marble Cross Found in N. Pakistan Hints of Christianity’s Early Presence There

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  • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    Sowwy
    I think she loves you. She's STALKING you --- trying to lure you back to her thread. Resist, brudder, resist..... I think she has a spider web there that she refers to as her "parlor".
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
      She's STALKING you --- trying to lure you back to her thread.
      Point of information the Marble Cross thread was started by your pal rogue06
      "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

      Comment


      • Back on topic -- has anybody seen anything on this newer than June?
        "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

          I think she's the type who, in her own mind, is absolutely convinced that she is right and you are wrong - nothing you or anybody else can say will change that.
          Is it really impossible to stay away from the personal insults directed at the participants? HA apologized - what about yourself and others? Let's keep to the subject matter and not make derogatory comments about others. Otherwise go elsewhere.

          He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

          "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

          Comment


          • Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            You aren't the only one allowed to ask questions and when you get some you utterly refuse to give any response. You call that behavior cowardly but you exemplify it to a T. I guess its projection on your part.

            OTOH, I directly answered yours but you need to continue to pretend otherwise -- even when other posters point out that I did answer it and even direct you to where I did so.

            You really are a sad case.
            OK - may I ask the mods to please close the thread? I'm just going to have to ban all the participants anyway.
            He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

            "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

            Comment


            • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

              Is it really impossible to stay away from the personal insults directed at the participants? HA apologized - what about yourself and others? Let's keep to the subject matter and not make derogatory comments about others. Otherwise go elsewhere.
              Jim, when you've got a rock in your hand, and are told "he who is without sin..."... the WISE man lowers his head and backs slowly toward the exit.

              You just hold the rock behind your back for future use (you've thrown more than your share) and pretend you've been the good little boy the whole time.
              You rail against name calling, but you call names.
              You complain that people aren't nice, but when you are called out for your unChristian conduct - you don't repent - you accuse others of MAKING you be unChristian, or PREVENTING you from being Christian.

              It's really really really old. Take a break. Go plant a garden. Stop watching the news, and maybe get caught up on some Bible reading.

              Yeah, I know, I'm viciously attacking you, totally unprovoked, and you're totally innocent, and of a sound mind and stellar Christian character.

              I'll report this thread as being requested by the thread starter to be closed, and I'll report myself for being a meanie.

              While you're at it --- why don't you ask for your other HateTrump threads to be closed as well!

              Love, Lucy



              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                Jim, when you've got a rock in your hand, and are told "he who is without sin..."... the WISE man lowers his head and backs slowly toward the exit.

                You just hold the rock behind your back for future use (you've thrown more than your share) and pretend you've been the good little boy the whole time.
                You rail against name calling, but you call names.
                You complain that people aren't nice, but when you are called out for your unChristian conduct - you don't repent - you accuse others of MAKING you be unChristian, or PREVENTING you from being Christian.

                It's really really really old. Take a break. Go plant a garden. Stop watching the news, and maybe get caught up on some Bible reading.

                Yeah, I know, I'm viciously attacking you, totally unprovoked, and you're totally innocent, and of a sound mind and stellar Christian character.

                I'll report this thread as being requested by the thread starter to be closed, and I'll report myself for being a meanie.

                While you're at it --- why don't you ask for your other HateTrump threads to be closed as well!

                Love, Lucy


                OK - I've asked the thread be closed. And the reason is because the majority of the participants are now just engaged in insults - including yourself.

                I will ask you to leave if the mods refuse to close it and it stays open because you just can't be nice. Sorry it's that way, but it is.
                Last edited by oxmixmudd; 01-13-2021, 02:41 PM.
                He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

                "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

                Comment


                • Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post

                  OK - I've asked the thread be closed. And I will ask you to leave if the mods refuse to close it and it stays open because you just can't be nice. Sorry it's that way, but it is.
                  Oh, I can be nice with no problem at all --- I just can't stand rank hypocrisy, and neither could Jesus. If you can't stand the heat, stop starting fires and fueling them!
                  "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                    Oh, I can be nice with no problem at all --- I just can't stand rank hypocrisy, and neither could Jesus. If you can't stand the heat, stop starting fires and fueling them!
                    As has been true in the past, I will not commit to not interacting with you if you you chose to interact with me. So if you want to maintain that - it will for the most part be up to you.

                    I am curious though if you ever actually go back and read through a series of interactions between us after you've calmed down to see how they look then.

                    That is not a question - so no need to answer, just a suggestion for a later day.

                    With that I'm abandoning the thread regardless of what the mods do in terms of closing it down.
                    He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me."

                    "So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets"

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                      Oh, I can be nice with no problem at all --- I just can't stand rank hypocrisy, and neither could Jesus. If you can't stand the heat, stop starting fires and fueling them!
                      Sort of. This was posted in August of last year by the Missionary Sisters of St. Columban. So it isn't exactly a news source but does contain some additional info, although I don't know exactly how trustworthy that info is.


                      Source: Giant Cross found in Skardu, Pakistan


                      “It is indeed great news for all of us that an ancient cross was found in Skardu. It shows that Christianity existed in this area,” said Mansha Noor, executive director of Caritas Pakistan.


                      A massive ancient cross was discovered in northern Pakistan, indicating the existence of Christians in the region, according to a report at UCANews.com.

                      The giant marble cross, believed to be up to 1,200 years old, was found by a three-member expedition team from the University of Baltistan, Skardu in the mountain range of Kavardo in Baltistan.


                      “The huge cross of marble rock weighing 3-4 tons and measuring approximately 7×6 feet has been found some two kilometers from the base camp, high in the mountains of Kavardo, Baltistan, overlooking the Indus River,” the team said in a press release on June 14, 2020. The Cross is most probably from nearby mountains, since the marble used for the cross is found in the surrounding mountains. The front side is finely finished while the back side is rough.

                      According to the UCANews report, researcher Wajid Bhatti identified the cross as a “Thomanian cross,” and said it was one of the largest crosses discovered on the subcontinent.

                      Dubbed the “Kavardo Cross,” the finding could represent evidence that Christian communities once lived in the region.

                      “It is indeed great news for all of us that an ancient cross was found in Skardu. It shows that Christianity existed in this area and there must be a church and houses of Christians. There are currently no Christian families in that area, but they were once present,” said Mansha Noor, executive director of Caritas Pakistan.

                      It is interesting to note the location of this important discovery. This location is not very far from the Old Silk Road, a network of roads which joined China, Central Asia and the Subcontinent with Persian Empire in the East and Byzantine Empire in Western Asia. By the year 600 Persian Empire in the East included part of Afghanistan and some of present day western part of Baluchistan.

                      When news of the find was first circulated, Wajid Bhatti, who researches ancient Christian crosses at Islamabad’s Quaid-i-Azam University, contacted the university and said he recognized it at once. He said similar but smaller crosses had been found further south east in Taxila. The region’s position on Silk Road trading routes could have attracted Christian travellers, he said.

                      According to tradition, Christianity was established in sub continent in AD 52 with the arrival of Thomas the Apostle in Cranganore, said Dr Elena Ene D-Vasilescu, from Oxford University. But cross symbols were also widespread in the Indus region well beforehand, she said. “As we know, the cross with four equal arms is a symbol of life and order.”

                      Fr. Gulshan Barkat, a catholic priest in Pakistan, who holds a degree in Church History from the Pontifical Gregorian University in Rome and has done extensive research in the British Library in London shared some views on the possible historical background to Christianity in this area.

                      Christianity flexed its missionary muscles in Persian Empire in 4th century but the dawn of it brought persecution to Eastern Christians while peace to Western Christians. King Shapur 11(309-379) of Persian Empire started persecution of Christians in his empire in 340’s. There is a possibility that some of Christians and missionaries living on the eastern border of the Persian Empire fled to escape persecution and lived among the peace loving Buddhists of Himalayan and Karakoram valleys, including Kavardo, which after may have become a centre of Christian settlement and evangelization.

                      He wonders if there was a monastery in Kavardo valley? Is this cross from that monastery? The existence of a monastery can be a possibility since there was a network of missionary monasteries in the Persian Empire and Arabian Peninsula. By the 5th century more than 30% of the population of the Persian Empire was Christian. Herat in present day Afghanistan was raised to metropolitan diocese in or after 585. Therefore one cannot rule out the existence of a monastery in Kavardo.

                      Were there left remnants of St. Thomas Christians who escaped the onslaught of the Huns? Was there a church built on the mountain and this discovery belongs to it? Was there a Christian cemetery and this cross belongs to it? Are there Christian inscriptions on rocks, walls or in caves around? Christianity walked on and around the Silk Road. The discovery of the cross in Baltistan may open new avenues of academic collaboration and cooperation between researchers and historians.



                      Source

                      © Copyright Original Source




                      There were a few "touristy" pictures I didn't include.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                        Back on topic -- has anybody seen anything on this newer than June?
                        As previously noted this discovery tells us very little.

                        Christian tradition[s] can hardly be considered reliable historical sources. The cross symbol in various forms [e.g. the Egyptian ankh] predates Christianity, and everything else regarding this find appears to be nothing more than speculation and/or guesswork.
                        "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                          As previously noted this discovery tells us very little.
                          You have a remarkable gift at stating the extreme obvious.

                          Christian tradition[s] can hardly be considered reliable historical sources. The cross symbol in various forms [e.g. the Egyptian ankh] predates Christianity, and everything else regarding this find appears to be nothing more than speculation and/or guesswork.
                          Yet, there it is, all 3 or 4 tons of it, in plain sight.
                          For the sarcastically impaired the following is said in jest



                          source.gif

                          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                            You have a remarkable gift at stating the extreme obvious.
                            Why would you expect any further news on this subject? Until it can be identified [if that is ever possible] it remains an interesting artefact, nothing more.

                            In and of itself it does not appear to be of any major historical importance. Texts would have been of far greater interest and import.
                            "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                              Why would you expect any further news on this subject?
                              Are you nuts? Why would I not? It's interesting.

                              Until it can be identified [if that is ever possible] it remains an interesting artefact, nothing more.
                              Ah, the "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" argument.

                              In and of itself it does not appear to be of any major historical importance. Texts would have been of far greater interest and import.
                              I'm curious how it got there, and would love to learn more. You seem to have a need to downplay and ignore it.
                              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                                Are you nuts? Why would I not? It's interesting.
                                As a physical object? Or for what it may possibly represents/signify?


                                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                I'm curious how it got there, and would love to learn more.
                                How do you imagine it got there? Levitation? Aliens?

                                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                                You seem to have a need to downplay and ignore it.
                                Until we learn more of its origins etc it remains an interesting curiosity.
                                "Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful" Attrib. Seneca 4 BCE - 65 CE

                                Comment

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