What is Dark Energy?

[Sparko]

Actually there is a theory that the gravitational effect of relativity is the cause of the extra mass.

I am not a scientist but I am leaning toward "There is something fundamental that we don't understand about how the universe expands yet" Than that there is actually extra mass and energy at all. Occam's Razor and all that. It is far more likely that we just don't understand something crucial yet, than 80% of the universe is made up of undetectable mass and energy that magically expands the universe.

[Christianbookworm]

no. scientists are aware that they have no real idea what dark matter and energy are and that they might just be fudge factors.

Was that the Enlightenment period? AKA the time period where Europe got Sophomore Syndrome! At least we now admit when we don't know something. Or am I exaggerating early modern European arrogance?

[37818]

The extra mass could be caused by some other phenomena that we have not discovered yet, or some change in our calculation regarding gravity, or any other number of other things. Sure adding "dark matter" fixes the problem, but that is because it is a "fudge factor" and that is what fudge factors do. They provide a solution to a problem until the ACTUAL solution comes along. When astronomers believed in epicycles, they had to explain why planets seemed to go backwards in their orbits every so often. Well epicycles explained it perfectly and the math worked out exactly! Did that mean that epicycles were real? No. Because once they realize that the Earth went around the sun and so did the planets, then the retrograde problem went away because Earth was orbiting faster than the outer planets so they appeared to go backwards when we overtook them in our orbit.

Nobody knows what dark matter is. It is just a label for unknown mass needed to explain certain observations. I personally think it makes more sense to believe that it is a flaw in our science and formulas, than there is some mysterious matter out there that we can't see or detect in any way but it has mass and yet no other physicality.

Actually there is a theory that the gravitational effect of relativity is the cause of the extra mass.

[Sparko]

So, we still are that youngster that thinks he has a handle on a subject, but doesn't fully realize the amount of knowledge he still lacks?

no. scientists are aware that they have no real idea what dark matter and energy are and that they might just be fudge factors.

[Christianbookworm]

So, we still are that youngster that thinks he has a handle on a subject, but doesn't fully realize the amount of knowledge he still lacks?

[Sparko]

Matter in the solar system is generally close enough to the sun and reflective enough that it can eventually be spotted, and thus is not "dark."

Well, it's unknown because we can't see it - i.o.w., it's dark.

The problem is that scientists don't think it is "normal" matter that we just can't see. It takes up most of the universe I believe. So that means that we should see things that mass 2 to 3 times normal here in our own solar system (and on Earth!) and we don't.

http://www.space.com/20930-dark-matter.html

More is unknown than is known. We know how much dark energy there is because we know how it affects the universe's expansion. Other than that, it is a complete mystery. But it is an important mystery. It turns out that roughly 68% of the universe is dark energy. Dark matter makes up about 27%. The rest - everything on Earth, everything ever observed with all of our instruments, all normal matter - adds up to less than 5% of the universe. Come to think of it, maybe it shouldn't be called "normal" matter at all, since it is such a small fraction of the universe.
https://science.nasa.gov/astrophysic...is-dark-energy

[One Bad Pig]

It supposedly makes up the majority of the universe. Yet we can't see it. It also means that it should be right here among us. So why can't we find it on Earth? or in our Solar System? Why does it only exist "out there?" Why are we so special that it doesn't exist right here?

Matter in the solar system is generally close enough to the sun and reflective enough that it can eventually be spotted, and thus is not "dark."

also "dark" in Dark matter and energy doesn't refer to it being dark, but being "unknown"

Well, it's unknown because we can't see it - i.o.w., it's dark.

[Sparko]

We can generally only see matter because it radiates or reflects energy. Dark matter is only dark because it does not do so at detectable levels. We can infer its presence where it partially blocks light (interstellar dust clouds) or causes gravitational lensing (presumably something massive like a black hole). The fudge factor is whether or not there is enough of it to cause, e.g., the galactic rotational effects we observe.

It supposedly makes up the majority of the universe. Yet we can't see it. It also means that it should be right here among us. So why can't we find it on Earth? or in our Solar System? Why does it only exist "out there?" Why are we so special that it doesn't exist right here?


also "dark" in Dark matter and energy doesn't refer to it being dark, but being "unknown"

[One Bad Pig]

They are doing the same thing now with a search for a planet beyond Pluto to explain abberations in it's orbit. Could be real, could be fudge.

I was watching a show on the Science channel regarding Dark Matter and the scientists interviewed even said they had no idea what it was, and it could turn out to be nonexistent if a better theory came along. It is a fudge factor. It could be real or it could not be. I am leaning toward not, because it is too weird. Invisible mass? all around us, but we can't see it or measure it?

We can generally only see matter because it radiates or reflects energy. Dark matter is only dark because it does not do so at detectable levels. We can infer its presence where it partially blocks light (interstellar dust clouds) or causes gravitational lensing (presumably something massive like a black hole). The fudge factor is whether or not there is enough of it to cause, e.g., the galactic rotational effects we observe.

[Sparko]

It's a lot like Vulcan, made up to make their models "work".

They are doing the same thing now with a search for a planet beyond Pluto to explain abberations in it's orbit. Could be real, could be fudge.

I was watching a show on the Science channel regarding Dark Matter and the scientists interviewed even said they had no idea what it was, and it could turn out to be nonexistent if a better theory came along. It is a fudge factor. It could be real or it could not be. I am leaning toward not, because it is too weird. Invisible mass? all around us, but we can't see it or measure it?

[Cerebrum123]

It's a lot like Vulcan, made up to make their models "work".

[Sparko]

Spiral galaxies rotated like sold wheels instead of what was expected by law of gravity. Only by the addition of mass did the law of gravity as understood work as expected, the needed added mass was called dark matter.

The extra mass could be caused by some other phenomena that we have not discovered yet, or some change in our calculation regarding gravity, or any other number of other things. Sure adding "dark matter" fixes the problem, but that is because it is a "fudge factor" and that is what fudge factors do. They provide a solution to a problem until the ACTUAL solution comes along. When astronomers believed in epicycles, they had to explain why planets seemed to go backwards in their orbits every so often. Well epicycles explained it perfectly and the math worked out exactly! Did that mean that epicycles were real? No. Because once they realize that the Earth went around the sun and so did the planets, then the retrograde problem went away because Earth was orbiting faster than the outer planets so they appeared to go backwards when we overtook them in our orbit.

Nobody knows what dark matter is. It is just a label for unknown mass needed to explain certain observations. I personally think it makes more sense to believe that it is a flaw in our science and formulas, than there is some mysterious matter out there that we can't see or detect in any way but it has mass and yet no other physicality.

[37818]

no, it is, as you said, gravitational lensing effect, shown via computer graphics.

They THEORIZE it is caused by Dark Matter. It still has not been observed or proven.

Basically what you are saying is like astronomers using the charts of the retrograde orbits of the planets to prove that epicycles were real. Dark matter may or may not be real. But as of now it is just the explanation for there seeming to be more mass in the universe than we can directly see.


Now as to CBW's question about how does it affect Christianity? I have no idea. Maybe it is the mass of the spirit world? Yeah that sounds crackpot.

Spiral galaxies rotated like sold wheels instead of what was expected by law of gravity. Only by the addition of mass did the law of gravity as understood work as expected, the needed added mass was called dark matter.

http://www.darkmatterphysics.com/Gal...l-galaxies.htm

[Sparko]

Dark matter is what is called the needed and unseen mass in the universe. Dark matter has been imaged and given location by means its observed gravity. The gravitational lensing is measured and made into an image.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]20006[/ATTACH]
The blue in the image is the imaged dark matter.

no, it is, as you said, gravitational lensing effect, shown via computer graphics.

They THEORIZE it is caused by Dark Matter. It still has not been observed or proven.

Basically what you are saying is like astronomers using the charts of the retrograde orbits of the planets to prove that epicycles were real. Dark matter may or may not be real. But as of now it is just the explanation for there seeming to be more mass in the universe than we can directly see.


Now as to CBW's question about how does it affect Christianity? I have no idea. Maybe it is the mass of the spirit world? Yeah that sounds crackpot.

[37818]

Dark matter is what is called the needed and unseen mass in the universe. Dark matter has been imaged and given location by means its observed gravity. The gravitational lensing is measured and made into an image.
260px-1e0657_scale.jpg
The blue in the image is the imaged dark matter.