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*Theistic evolution is a position somewhere between evolution and creationism. It says that God created the substance of our universe and the guided it into what we have today via the evolutionary process.
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The Mystery of Noah's Flood

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  • The Mystery of Noah's Flood

    The Flood and it's consequences, as told in Genesis, is truly an amazing story. It's a terrific mystery, when unraveled, displays the Supreme Intelligence of our God and tells us of our True Origins.

    God tells us, as it is written in the Scripture, that we live in three different Worlds - composed of at least 3 Heavens or Worlds, literally speaking.

    The first World was the first Heaven (Gen 1:6-8) which was totally destroyed in the Flood. ll Peter 3:6 The present Heaven or Universe (our World) will be burned. ll Peter 3:10 The third Heaven or World is the New Heaven and New Earth, where Jesus is preparing a place for us - Rev. 21… and it is Eternal - Rev. 22:5.

    In order to understand the Great Flood, one must understand the following:

    The world of Adam was an enclosed Biosphere much smaller than our world, which was totally surrounded by the firmament which protected it from the water into which it was placed. Gen 1:6-8

    Adam's earth is considered FLAT and much smaller than our present world - It had only 4 Rivers, which all ran out of the Garden of Eden .... compared to our present world, we have thousands of Rivers all over the face of our earth. The elevation of their highest mountain (Adam’s world) was only 15 cubits high (22 1/2 ft.) while our highest mountain here on our earth measures some 29k ft. Above sea level.

    In fact, Adam's Earth was not on a Rocky Planet, like our present world, since it was "clean dissolved" in the Flood, and rocks don't dissolve in water.*Isa 24:19


    God bless
    Last edited by Seve; 12-09-2016, 05:42 AM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Seve View Post
    Adam's earth is considered FLAT and much smaller than our present world
    St Augustine doesn't agree. He explains in detail how first light and then Sun circled each day around a round Earth, precisely as now (yes, St Augustine was a Geocentric too, not just St Thomas Aquinas, Sungenis, John Martin and me ...)

    Originally posted by Seve View Post
    - It had only 4 Rivers, which all ran out of the Garden of Eden .... compared to our present world, we have thousands of Rivers all over the face of our earth.
    The text does not say those 4 rivers were the only ones in the world.

    The text does identify them with rivers we have now, like one of them is Frat.

    Not sure whether Frat and Hiddekel ran south as now or North from what is now Persian Gulf, but they were Euphrates and Tigris.

    The other two might be Nile and Ganges, though Danube has also been suggested. See my reflection here.

    Originally posted by Seve View Post
    The elevation of their highest mountain (Adam’s world) was only 15 cubits high (22 1/2 ft.) while our highest mountain here on our earth measures some 29k ft. Above sea level.
    The text does NOT say the highest mountains were only 15 cubits high.

    It does say that water rose 15 cubits over the mountains which were highest.

    However, present height of our highest mountains, would be due to post-Flood tectonic movement.

    Not sure whether water rose only 15 cubits over highest mountains or whether the moment when it did was the last time water level could be measured before Ark went drifting across what had become a water world, but it does imply the highest mountains were so flat one could build an Ark on top of one of them, presumably THE highest mountain. See my reflection here and here.
    http://notontimsblogroundhere.blogspot.fr/p/apologetics-section.html

    Thanks, Sparko, for telling how I add the link here!

    Comment


    • #3
      Dear hansgeorg,

      Noah and the Ark were 22 1/2 ft (15 cubits) above the Highest Elevation of Adam's Earth on the 150th Day after the Flood began. At this depth the Mountains of that Earth were covered in water. Gen 7:20.... Contrary to your view.

      On the SAME 150th Day after the Flood began, the Ark rested upon the mountains of Ararat. Gen 8:4

      Since you disagree, please explain to us HOW could the Ark be in both places on the SAME Day?


      God bless
      Last edited by Seve; 12-09-2016, 07:07 AM.

      Comment


      • #4

        Comment


        • #5
          sonny.gif
          That's what
          - She

          Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
          - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

          I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
          Stephen R. Donaldson

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Seve View Post
            The Flood and it's consequences, as told in Genesis, is truly an amazing story. It's a terrific mystery, when unraveled, displays the Supreme Intelligence of our God and tells us of our True Origins.
            Originally posted by Seve View Post
            God tells us, as it is written in the Scripture, that we live in three different Worlds - composed of at least 3 Heavens or Worlds, literally speaking.

            The first World was the first Heaven (Gen 1:6-8) which was totally destroyed in the Flood. ll Peter 3:6 The present Heaven or Universe (our World) will be burned. ll Peter 3:10 The third Heaven or World is the New Heaven and New Earth, where Jesus is preparing a place for us - Rev. 21… and it is Eternal - Rev. 22:5.
            I disagree.

            The passage in Genesis doesn't designate a 'First World' as something separate from the 'Second World'. The 'Second World' is just the 'First World' that has undergone a changes brought about by sin and decay resulting in a flood. The 'Third World' as you describe it makes sense because a new creation is described. I don't see scriptural justification for the first and second world being materially different worlds.

            Originally posted by Seve View Post
            In order to understand the Great Flood, one must understand the following:

            The world of Adam was an enclosed Biosphere much smaller than our world, which was totally surrounded by the firmament which protected it from the water into which it was placed. Gen 1:6-8
            I've yet to see Scriptural justification for this claim.

            Originally posted by Seve View Post
            Adam's earth is considered FLAT and much smaller than our present world - It had only 4 Rivers, which all ran out of the Garden of Eden .... compared to our present world, we have thousands of Rivers all over the face of our earth. The elevation of their highest mountain (Adam’s world) was only 15 cubits high (22 1/2 ft.) while our highest mountain here on our earth measures some 29k ft. Above sea level.
            The Scriptures do not say those were the only rivers, just rivers that were near Eden.
            If Mark Twain writes about Huckleberry Finn on the Mississippi he isn't claiming that in the only river in the USA.
            Also, Flood geologists would claim our current mountain ranges are a result of the flood - not indicative of an entirely different world.

            Originally posted by Seve View Post
            In fact, Adam's Earth was not on a Rocky Planet, like our present world, since it was "clean dissolved" in the Flood, and rocks don't dissolve in water.*Isa 24:19
            God bless
            No.
            Just No.
            It is a misuse of scripture to take snippets from several different books to create doctrine.
            Mixing poetry, history, and theology indiscriminately together without recognizing the different genres is a nice way to come up with some really messed up stuff.
            Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

            Comment


            • #7
              The elevation of their highest mountain (Adam’s world) was only 15 cubits high (22 1/2 ft.)
              er.. say what? Where do you get that? 22 FEET? That's not even a hill.

              Comment


              • #8
                The Physical Making of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd HeavenS or Worlds = Multiverse.

                The 1st firmament of heaven Made (Gen 1:6-8) was like a glass container (simile) in which God would build above the firmament. The firmament protected Adam's Earth from the water which completely surrounded this firmament. The verses below reveal this since God places water inside the firmament of heaven above....

                (Gen 1:6-8 KJV)And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which [were] under the firmament from the waters which [were] above the firmament: and it was so. 8*And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the*second day.

                He then built solid ground (similar to a man made island) on top of the water under the heaven. Can you visualize our Lord God building a solid ground into the middle of water? IF you can, then, that’ more or less how God divided the waters from the waters.*

                9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. 10*And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

                The firmament b/w Adam’s Earth and the heaven above*was empty, containing clear air only.

                (Gen 2:6 KJV) But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

                ..... and the Earth atmosphere is formed.

                Now, that we understand that Adam's firmament/heaven which was made the 2nd Day, and the mist that went up from Earth on the 3rd Day Gen 1:8... forming the Earth’s Atmosphere..... the information below added to the account revealed in this verse:

                (Gen 2:4 KJV)*These are the generations of the heavenS (plural) and of the earth when they were created,in the day*that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,*

                Notice: As you already know, the 1st Firmament called Heaven, was made on the 2nd Day.Gen 1:6-8.

                However, the cited verse above (Gen.2:4) is speaking of other heavenS (plural) Made in the SAME day as Adam’s Earth. Gen 1:9. The ONLY Day the Earth and the other Heavens could have been made was the 3rd Day.

                Add the first heaven, made the 2nd Day, Gen 1:8 plus the other heavens Gen 2:4 which were made on the 3rd Day, including the one that is being prepared for us, right now (Jhn 14:2 KJV) when this world is burned (Rev 21:1 KJV) then, you now have 3 different Heavens or Worlds..

                IOW, no one in the proper frame of mind could seriously deny that God Created and Made us a 3 different Worlds or Multiverse to live in, Amen?


                God Bless


                Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the WORLDS were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
                Last edited by Seve; 12-09-2016, 08:13 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I'm starting to reconsider the Protestant position that every person should have a Bible.
                  Actually YOU put Trump in the White House. He wouldn't have gotten 1% of the vote if it wasn't for the widespread spiritual and cultural devastation caused by progressive policies. There's no "this country" left with your immigration policies, your "allies" are worthless and even more suicidal than you are and democracy is a sick joke that I hope nobody ever thinks about repeating when the current order collapses. - Darth_Executor striking a conciliatory note in Civics 101

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
                    I'm starting to reconsider the Protestant position that every person should have a Bible.
                    Maybe we should have a test to show that a person has the logic skills, exegetical skills, and any other required skills to read the Bible unsupervised. Or at least make them pass the test to talk about their "brilliant" ideas.
                    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
                      I'm starting to reconsider the Protestant position that every person should have a Bible.
                      As a Catholic, I have never, ever doubted the truth of this 'Protestant' position, but I have to admit, you make a very good point!
                      βλέπομεν γὰρ ἄρτι δι᾿ ἐσόπτρου ἐν αἰνίγματι, τότε δὲ πρόσωπον πρὸς πρόσωπον·
                      ἄρτι γινώσκω ἐκ μέρους, τότε δὲ ἐπιγνώσομαι καθὼς καὶ ἐπεγνώσθην.

                      אָכֵ֕ן אַתָּ֖ה אֵ֣ל מִסְתַּתֵּ֑ר אֱלֹהֵ֥י יִשְׂרָאֵ֖ל מוֹשִֽׁיעַ׃

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Seve View Post
                        The Physical Making of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd HeavenS or Worlds = Multiverse.

                        The 1st firmament of heaven Made (Gen 1:6-8) was like a glass container (simile) in which God would build above the firmament. The firmament protected Adam's Earth from the water which completely surrounded this firmament. The verses below reveal this since God places water inside the firmament of heaven above....

                        (Gen 1:6-8 KJV)And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. 7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which [were] under the firmament from the waters which [were] above the firmament: and it was so. 8*And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the*second day.

                        He then built solid ground (similar to a man made island) on top of the water under the heaven. Can you visualize our Lord God building a solid ground into the middle of water? IF you can, then, that’ more or less how God divided the waters from the waters.*

                        9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. 10*And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

                        The firmament b/w Adam’s Earth and the heaven above*was empty, containing clear air only.

                        (Gen 2:6 KJV) But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

                        ..... and the Earth atmosphere is formed.

                        Now, that we understand that Adam's firmament/heaven which was made the 2nd Day, and the mist that went up from Earth on the 3rd Day Gen 1:8... forming the Earth’s Atmosphere..... the information below added to the account revealed in this verse:

                        (Gen 2:4 KJV)*These are the generations of the heavenS (plural) and of the earth when they were created,in the day*that the Lord God made the earth and the heavens,*

                        Notice: As you already know, the 1st Firmament called Heaven, was made on the 2nd Day.Gen 1:6-8.

                        However, the cited verse above (Gen.2:4) is speaking of other heavenS (plural) Made in the SAME day as Adam’s Earth. Gen 1:9. The ONLY Day the Earth and the other Heavens could have been made was the 3rd Day.

                        Add the first heaven, made the 2nd Day, Gen 1:8 plus the other heavens Gen 2:4 which were made on the 3rd Day, including the one that is being prepared for us, right now (Jhn 14:2 KJV) when this world is burned (Rev 21:1 KJV) then, you now have 3 different Heavens or Worlds..

                        IOW, no one in the proper frame of mind could seriously deny that God Created and Made us a 3 different Worlds or Multiverse to live in, Amen?


                        God Bless


                        Heb 11:3 Through faith we understand that the WORLDS were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
                        Remember, the 1st heaven or universe was Adam's world (Gen 1:6-8 KJV), which was "clean dissolved" in the Flood. The present Universe is the 2nd Heaven, our world, made Billions of years AFTER Adam's world was made, and is also doomed for destruction and will be dissolved too. The 3rd Heaven or world is where Christians will go AFTER our world is burned Rev 21.

                        [Rev 21:1 KJV] And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

                        Of course, it’s entirely New Heaven and New Earth, compare to the first that was totally destroyed the 2nd that is also doomed to be destroyed..... therefore, God made us a Multiverse. Amen!?

                        God Bless
                        Last edited by Seve; 12-09-2016, 09:13 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Seve View Post
                          Dear hansgeorg,

                          Noah and the Ark were 22 1/2 ft (15 cubits) above the Highest Elevation of Adam's Earth on the 150th Day after the Flood began. At this depth the Mountains of that Earth were covered in water. Gen 7:20.... Contrary to your view.

                          On the SAME 150th Day after the Flood began, the Ark rested upon the mountains of Ararat. Gen 8:4

                          Since you disagree, please explain to us HOW could the Ark be in both places on the SAME Day?


                          God bless
                          [18] For they overflowed exceedingly: and filled all on the face of the earth: and the ark was carried upon the waters. [19] And the waters prevailed beyond measure upon the earth: and all the high mountains under the whole heaven were covered. [20] The water was fifteen cubits higher than the mountains which it covered. ... [24] And the waters prevailed upon the earth a hundred and fifty days. ... [3] And the waters returned from off the earth going and coming: and they began to be abated after a hundred and fifty days.

                          You get the 15 cubits wrong, no trace of mountains being limited to that and you get the 150 days wrong, they are counted from AFTER the 15 cubits over highest mountains.

                          Also, since Ararat is volcanic, it can have risen some during the 150 days, so the waters did not need to abate much (not go fifteen cubits down, for instance) before the Ark could rest.
                          http://notontimsblogroundhere.blogspot.fr/p/apologetics-section.html

                          Thanks, Sparko, for telling how I add the link here!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                            Maybe we should have a test to show that a person has the logic skills, exegetical skills, and any other required skills to read the Bible unsupervised. Or at least make them pass the test to talk about their "brilliant" ideas.
                            While the Spanish Inquisition determined who could and who couldn't read the Bible among those not obliged to, it required skills in prayer and obedience to the Church.
                            http://notontimsblogroundhere.blogspot.fr/p/apologetics-section.html

                            Thanks, Sparko, for telling how I add the link here!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Meh Gerbil View Post
                              It is a misuse of scripture to take snippets from several different books to create doctrine.
                              Mixing poetry, history, and theology indiscriminately together without recognizing the different genres is a nice way to come up with some really messed up stuff.
                              That is on the other hand wrong.

                              The problem is with whether rocks can be dissolved, I think they can under that kind of water pressure that Flood geologists are considering.
                              http://notontimsblogroundhere.blogspot.fr/p/apologetics-section.html

                              Thanks, Sparko, for telling how I add the link here!

                              Comment

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