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Miracles and Nanosurgery

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  • Miracles and Nanosurgery

    With the theory that miracles don't involve breaking the laws of physics and instead rely on God having all knowledge and power to do as He sees fit, how could the various miracles have been done?

    e.g. raising the dead(essentially resuscitating someone from brain death and maybe decomposition)- first, the decomposition would need to be repaired/reversed, the cause of death would need to be dealt with, repair and restart the brain and other vital organs. All this in less than a second, which is not a problem for God.

    healing the man born blind- fix whatever is keeping him from being able to see, rewire his occipital lobe/visual cortex to be able to process the information

    So, if we developed nanosurgery, could we heal disabilities and reverse brain death?
    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

  • #2
    The only thing I'm clear is that even if centuries from now we can do all this and more, we won't have something quite like a 'transphysical' resurrection body this side of death :)
    We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore on Christ's behalf: 'Be reconciled to God!!'
    - 2 Corinthians 5:20.
    In deviantArt: ll-bisto-ll.deviantart.com
    Christian art and more: Christians.deviantart.com

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Bisto View Post
      The only thing I'm clear is that even if centuries from now we can do all this and more, we won't have something quite like a 'transphysical' resurrection body this side of death :)
      Of course not! That and the initial creation of the universe are not covered by the laws of physics. How else was Jesus able to appear in locked rooms?
      If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
        With the theory that miracles don't involve breaking the laws of physics and instead rely on God having all knowledge and power to do as He sees fit, how could the various miracles have been done?
        FYI, I don't think it is helpful to think of miracles as "breaking" natural laws. This language implies that natural laws run autonomously, and that the universe is a kind of "clock" or "machine" that is able to run on its own, apart from divine providence.

        I think it's more biblical to view "natural law" as God's normal way of running His universe, and "miracle" as an occasional, unusual way in which God runs His universe. God is just as much in charge of "natural" events as He is of miracles.
        "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind." – Albert Einstein

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Kbertsche View Post
          FYI, I don't think it is helpful to think of miracles as "breaking" natural laws. This language implies that natural laws run autonomously, and that the universe is a kind of "clock" or "machine" that is able to run on its own, apart from divine providence.

          I think it's more biblical to view "natural law" as God's normal way of running His universe, and "miracle" as an occasional, unusual way in which God runs His universe. God is just as much in charge of "natural" events as He is of miracles.
          I didn't claim that miracles broke the laws of physics. Though I would like to know why some would think it would be a miracle if God picked up a box versus if we did the same task. And why is nanotechnology seen as a bad thing by some Christians? I think it sounds cool. Of course, any technology can be used for good or for evil, and we humans seem to have a tendency to focus on one extreme...
          If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
            Of course not! That and the initial creation of the universe are not covered by the laws of physics. How else was Jesus able to appear in locked rooms?
            For the sarcastically impaired the following is said in jest

            Employing whatever techno-babble Marvel uses to justify Vision walking through walls.



            Vision_Phasing.jpg

            We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore on Christ's behalf: 'Be reconciled to God!!'
            - 2 Corinthians 5:20.
            In deviantArt: ll-bisto-ll.deviantart.com
            Christian art and more: Christians.deviantart.com

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            • #7
              I figured that Jesus teleported or something. Now, why the two on the road to Emmaus didn't recognize Jesus... well they sure weren't expecting to see Him! I am curious as to how the glorified body would look like on a cellular level. I guess the cells would be indestructible and immortal? I might be a nerd.
              If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                I figured that Jesus teleported or something. Now, why the two on the road to Emmaus didn't recognize Jesus... well they sure weren't expecting to see Him! I am curious as to how the glorified body would look like on a cellular level. I guess the cells would be indestructible and immortal? I might be a nerd.
                With the first comment I agree: it is the most logical explanation.
                The second comment is answered by the Bible:
                (v16)
                οι δε οφθαλμοι αυτων εκρατουντο του μη επιγνωναι αυτον
                the - but -eyes - of them - got restrained - of the - not - to recognise - him
                (v31)
                αυτων δε διηνοιχθησαν οι οφθαλμοι και επεγνωσαν αυτον
                of them - but - got opened - the - eyes - and - they knew - him

                Nothing was different about Jesus - it was their own capacity to recognise him that was impaired.

                As to the third: so 'tis written: 1 Cor 15:42 This is how it will be at the resurrection of the dead. What is planted is decaying, what is raised cannot decay. 43 The body is planted in a state of dishonor but is raised in a state of splendor. It is planted in weakness but is raised in power. 44 It is planted a physical* body but is raised a spiritual* body. If there is a physical* body, there is also a spiritual* body. ISV
                [* a body motivated and controlled either by the spirit or by the soul (translated as: physical) as applicable ... this doesn't refer to the physical composition of the body.]
                Last edited by tabibito; 04-03-2019, 05:11 AM.
                sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

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                • #9
                  I knew that already! I'm referring to the nerdy details that no one else would care about. Like how and why they were kept from recognizing Jesus.
                  If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                    I knew that already! I'm referring to the nerdy details that no one else would care about. Like how and why they were kept from recognizing Jesus.
                    Associative agnosia: a failure in recognition despite no deficit in perception.
                    sigpic1 Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω

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                    • #11
                      Obviously Jesus wore glasses so he wouldn't be recognized.


                      Proud Member of Da Blonde's Axis of Evil, Adam's Dirty Dozen, Dee Dee's Goon Squad, Tweb's In-Crowd, The Brood of Vipers & Exorcised by Ty & Dee Dee, and the only person who ever banned rogue06!

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                        I knew that already! I'm referring to the nerdy details that no one else would care about. Like how and why they were kept from recognizing Jesus.
                        Keep in mind that Jewish men of Jesus' day (and throughout most of history it seems) were typically bearded but after death they would have had all of their hair shaved off in preparation for burial. It could simply be that they didn't at first recognize him beardless. There are numerous websites showing just how different a man can look with and without a beard (The Daily Mail even ran an article on it).
                        Last edited by rogue06; 04-03-2019, 10:25 AM.

                        I'm always still in trouble again

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                          I knew that already! I'm referring to the nerdy details that no one else would care about. Like how and why they were kept from recognizing Jesus.

                          Because He didn't want them to recognize Him until He decided it was time. He was explaining the scriptures about Himself (all OT, btw), so they would get who He is and the significance of His life, death and resurrection.

                          Also none of the disciples really believed that Christ would be resurrected after His death. Even though He told them umpteen times and they had just seen Lazarus raised.


                          Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                            Obviously Jesus wore glasses so he wouldn't be recognized.

                            Jesus doesn't need glasses to pull of that trick! Though, I'm sure He had a good reason to not stick around and go back home from His short term mission trip.
                            If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
                              With the theory that miracles don't involve breaking the laws of physics and instead rely on God having all knowledge and power to do as He sees fit, how could the various miracles have been done?

                              e.g. raising the dead(essentially resuscitating someone from brain death and maybe decomposition)- first, the decomposition would need to be repaired/reversed, the cause of death would need to be dealt with, repair and restart the brain and other vital organs. All this in less than a second, which is not a problem for God.

                              healing the man born blind- fix whatever is keeping him from being able to see, rewire his occipital lobe/visual cortex to be able to process the information

                              So, if we developed nanosurgery, could we heal disabilities and reverse brain death?
                              Those would not be miracles.

                              They would be applications, of natural processes accessible to man, within human power to operate as human being judged fit.

                              That X is remarkable or marvellous, does not in the least mean that it is a miracle.

                              A miracle:
                              is outwith the capacities of anything in the natural order, or of the natural order as a whole
                              is inaccessible to the power of anything within the natural order
                              is not within the power of anything in the natural order to command or initiate
                              has God alone for its Author, so that it depends solely on God’s Wisdom, Power, and Goodness as its originating, formal, & first cause.

                              Miracles can be performed by means secondary AKA instrumental causes, so human beings can be God’s instruments in the doing of them; but they cannot do miracles by any power native to them, as the initiating causes of them. To perform miracles is a charism, in technical terminology, a “grace freely given”. That is, it is not a necessary adornment of the Christian life: which is itself a wholly gratuitous gift of God, Who gives as He wills.

                              Raising the dead is not resuscitation. Coastguards and paramedics resuscitate people. Raising the dead is totally impossible, because absolutely beyond the capacity of any created cause. Once the body is dead, it is dead, and no power on Earth can make it otherwise. To raise the dead is impossible to mere creatures, because none of them is God, the Author of life - therefore, God alone can do it. Like all miracles, such an act is purely super-natural, relying on and deriving from nothing in created nature.
                              Last edited by Rushing Jaws; 05-04-2020, 11:37 PM.

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