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Belief a Conscious Choice?

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  • JohnnyP
    replied
    Originally posted by rstrats View Post
    JohnnyP,

    re: "Do you see anything in this example that doesn't meet requirements of your OP?"


    I don't see where you give an example in your post #47.
    Referring to #38 discussed further in #49.

    Leave a comment:


  • Adrift
    replied
    Originally posted by rstrats View Post
    Adrift,

    You have a question/request directed to you in post #45.
    I answered that question in post #46.

    Leave a comment:


  • rstrats
    replied
    Adrift,

    You have a question/request directed to you in post #45.

    Leave a comment:


  • rstrats
    replied
    JohnnyP,

    re: "Do you see anything in this example that doesn't meet requirements of your OP?"


    I don't see where you give an example in your post #47.

    Leave a comment:


  • JohnnyP
    replied
    Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
    This whole thing is a bit off topic. Not all choices involve belief. If I am at a point where I must choose one of two options with no information I may well have to choose but that choice will not involve belief. Flip a coin does not mean I am going to believe the result, even if I act on it.
    Flipping a coin would simply shift belief about deciding which way is best, to belief that it's better to let chance decide. Or you could believe it's better to just sit down and not go anywhere, or turn around and head back. Any conscious choice between options usually comes down to what you believe is the best choice, for whatever reason.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jedidiah
    replied
    Originally posted by JohnnyP View Post
    Do you see anything in this example that doesn't meet requirements of your OP?
    This whole thing is a bit off topic. Not all choices involve belief. If I am at a point where I must choose one of two options with no information I may well have to choose but that choice will not involve belief. Flip a coin does not mean I am going to believe the result, even if I act on it.

    Leave a comment:


  • JohnnyP
    replied
    Originally posted by rstrats View Post
    JohnnyP,

    re: " How do you instantaneously choose to believe that going right is better than left, or vice versa?"

    I don't know. That's why I started this topic.
    Do you see anything in this example that doesn't meet requirements of your OP?

    Leave a comment:


  • Adrift
    replied
    Originally posted by rstrats View Post
    Adrift,

    re: "I'm always mystified when this conversation comes up, because its been my personal experience that changing one's beliefs is actually quite easy to do."

    So how about demonstrating your ability by doing as requested in the OP?
    I simply act upon the belief that I desire. I act as though that belief were true. So, for instance, say I'm about to lose my job because of corporate layoffs. My initial reaction to such news is fear based. I have a sense of frustration, hopelessness, despair, etc. My initial beliefs turn to worry about losing my vehicle, my home, or my ability to feed myself and my family. This fear goes into a loop in my mind where I replay everything I've done to get myself into this situation, and what I could have done differently, and of my eventual fate. These are undesirable thoughts and beliefs. So I stop myself. I lay out all of the facts. I ask myself, "what is the very worst thing that can realistically happen in this situation? Will I or my loved ones die? Will I be thrown into the streets? Will I never find another job again?" And the answer comes back, "no, no, and no". Then I act on that knowledge. I tell myself that I am the head and not the tail, that God will supply all of my needs, and that if worse comes to worse, God will provide a way of relief. When fear begin to encroach upon my mind, and tells me I'm a loser, and that there is no way out, and that I'm trapped, I tell those thoughts to shut up, and then I meditate on the Word, or I spend time in fellowship with other believers who can encourage me, and those wrong headed beliefs quickly depart.

    Pick up You Are Not Your Brain, I think it'll offer a lot of insight into how its possible for people to choose what they believe. Its been positively endorsed by people as diverse as the Christian apologist J.P. Moreland, the actor Leonardo DiCaprio, and adjunct professor emeritus in the Department of Psychiatry and Behavioral Sciences Stanford University School of Medicine, David Burns.

    Leave a comment:


  • rstrats
    replied
    Adrift,

    re: "I'm always mystified when this conversation comes up, because its been my personal experience that changing one's beliefs is actually quite easy to do."

    So how about demonstrating your ability by doing as requested in the OP?

    Leave a comment:


  • Adrift
    replied
    I'm always mystified when this conversation comes up, because its been my personal experience that changing one's beliefs is actually quite easy to do. There have been a number of times in my life where I've decided that I will believe or not believe something all things considered equal. So, for instance, when I was younger I used to do roofing with my father, and found that I had a fear of heights. My fear was founded on the premise that if I got too close to the ledge, I would fall off the roof and severely injure myself or die. But I knew from watching other roofers that generally speaking this was not the case, so every day I would roof with my father I would force myself to look over the edge until I conquered my fear. I chose to believe that I would not die rather than that I would.

    Here's another example, when I was a teen in the late 80s and early 90s my worldview was extremely confused, especially since I had recently disassociated myself from a cult. I felt I had so many questions that could not be answered, and I hovered between holding onto a belief in the divine, and rejecting it altogether. I was in this state of confusion and frustration for years. In my early 20s I found myself in a situation (in Basic Training) of complete despair and solitude, and then I remembered God, and his forgiveness and his love, and decided that from then on, despite whatever questions I was holding onto, I would make a purposeful choice to place my faith in him. I would stop hovering, and believe in him. And lo and behold, in my studies and walk in my faith, all of the questions I had were slowly yet surely answered, and I found that placing my faith in him was perfectly justified all along.

    I know countless people over the years who have chosen their beliefs. Sometimes consciously and sometimes not so consciously. Paul says in Romans that we are to be transformed by the renewing of our minds, and I believe that renewing can come about through prayer, meditation, study, and even talking positive things over yourself. I recently read a terrific book by psychiatrist Jeffrey Schwarz called, You Are Not Your Brain: The 4-Step Solution for Changing Bad Habits, Ending Unhealthy Thinking, and Taking Control of Your Life. Its a fascinating read, and contains plenty of examples of people who were able to successfully change their beliefs for the better.
    Last edited by Adrift; 11-03-2014, 10:13 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • David Hayward
    replied
    Originally posted by rstrats View Post
    JohnnyP,

    re: " How do you instantaneously choose to believe that going right is better than left, or vice versa?"

    I don't know. That's why I started this topic.
    When I ask the question, "Why?",
    I sometimes feel I want to cry:
    I seek an answer, but instead I get many
    To decide between;
    And why is "X" any better than "Y"?

    Leave a comment:


  • Paprika
    replied
    Originally posted by rstrats View Post
    Paprika,

    re: "...you're trying to perform a reductio ad absurdum on my understanding of belief/believe by assuming that I would translate John 3:16 using 'believe'.


    How would you translate "believe" in John 3:16?
    I don't propose something authoritative. pistis and related words are (IMO) hard to render concisely in English, but I would go for "has faith" or "has loyalty".

    Leave a comment:


  • rstrats
    replied
    JohnnyP,

    re: " How do you instantaneously choose to believe that going right is better than left, or vice versa?"

    I don't know. That's why I started this topic.

    Leave a comment:


  • rstrats
    replied
    Deleted.

    Leave a comment:


  • rstrats
    replied
    Paprika,

    re: "...you're trying to perform a reductio ad absurdum on my understanding of belief/believe by assuming that I would translate John 3:16 using 'believe'.


    How would you translate "believe" in John 3:16?

    Leave a comment:

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