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Schizoaffectation..... is this how we react to our police?

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  • #46
    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
    When I was in school "spaz" was the then popular name of choice for those who would also get called nerds, geeks, dorks and dweebs.

    I should note that even popular groups often had derogatory nicknames.

    The athletes/jocks were called meatheads, muscle brains and the like.
    The term has a different connotation in the UK. The Spastic Society, now known as Scope, is a charity for people with cerebral palsy. Shortly after that term was made more popular to avoid being offensive, it got taken and used as a slur. Now it's considered very offensive, especially to people with cerebral palsy.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post

      Until a couple of years ago I didn't even know that "spaz" was considered offensive in certain places. Over here it can mean anything from hyperactive to something along the lines of having a seizure. Also, I'm trying to make it so terms like this have as little power as possible. The more society responds negatively to such terms the more power they gain. We live in a world where a handful of trolls can take something innocuous and convince people that it's a sign of hate with little effort. They did this with the okay hand sign and milk and way too many people just believed these 4chan trolls. You now have people who will seriously say that you are a white supremacist if you drink milk.
      Spaz...... certainly very offensive word around here. I still remember the term 'spastic' that was in common usage and where 'spaz' probably originated from, at one time a medical term.
      But it is a taboo word now.......

      If a person called me a white supremacist for drinking milk I think I might tell them to go away.......very clearly. Such people who think like that are ill.
      But extreme vegans might actually be offended on seeing milk in shops, etc. We've got some of them around. I got hassled as I cycled in to a McDonald's car-park once and since I can enjoy cross-talk I exchanged a few ideas with them, but a McDonalds security officer (!!!) spoilt it all by shooing them off the premises.


      Even those who have a disability of some kind often look down on others who have a different one. I do think everyone needs to be able to joke about and laugh at each other. It is often an important part of bonding but this can become a big problem when things are one-sided. Then it's just mean-spirited bullying.
      Only with friends, or in an obviously very friendly way.
      Joking towards others is fine until a nerve is touched....there are many taboos ....


      I agree but I also think we need to be careful not to go overboard in the other direction. Becoming too sensitive about everything can become just as much of a problem. Sometimes harshness is needed in order to deal with certain problems and often the truth itself is often harsh. We need to be able to distinguish between when to be empathetic and compassionate and when to be stern and harsh.
      There is a huge difference between friendly banter and the nastiness of the insult.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by eider View Post
        Spaz...... certainly very offensive word around here. I still remember the term 'spastic' that was in common usage and where 'spaz' probably originated from, at one time a medical term.
        But it is a taboo word now.......
        Many of today's insults were once merely medical terms. Idiot, imbecile, dumb, lame, and retarded are some examples. I think we are just giving jerks more power by making certain words taboo. After all these terms only have as much power as society gives them.

        If a person called me a white supremacist for drinking milk I think I might tell them to go away.......very clearly. Such people who think like that are ill.
        But extreme vegans might actually be offended on seeing milk in shops, etc. We've got some of them around. I got hassled as I cycled in to a McDonald's car-park once and since I can enjoy cross-talk I exchanged a few ideas with them, but a McDonalds security officer (!!!) spoilt it all by shooing them off the premises.
        Unfortunately, more and more people are just buying into ideas like that. Quite a few news sites like The New York Times have promoted this line of thinking. One place even tries to claim that the USDA food guidelines are racist. Too many people have made the leap from some people using milk as a sign of white supremacy to all people drinking it are white supremacists or are supporting white supremacy. They are just giving more power to the alt-right and neo-Nazis by doing so.

        At least with Vegans, I understand their objection to milk.

        Only with friends, or in an obviously very friendly way.
        Joking towards others is fine until a nerve is touched....there are many taboos ....
        I somewhat disagree here. What is considered "obvious joking" for one person might not be for another. It needs to be left up to the group of friends what is and isn't acceptable to them. Some people prefer a very dry and dark sense of humor and what may appear to others as a serious insult is a joke between friends. I'd put it like this, there shouldn't be any harassment and you should respect people's boundaries.

        There is a huge difference between friendly banter and the nastiness of the insult.
        That part wasn't about friendly banter but about empathy vs harshness. The truth is quite often harsh and people need to be prepared to hear it when it is. At other times they need an empathetic listener. Being unable to handle one or the other is going to harm someone in the long run.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
          I somewhat disagree here. What is considered "obvious joking" for one person might not be for another. It needs to be left up to the group of friends what is and isn't acceptable to them. Some people prefer a very dry and dark sense of humor and what may appear to others as a serious insult is a joke between friends. I'd put it like this, there shouldn't be any harassment and you should respect people's boundaries.
          To quote me dear brudder, this is about me, isn't it?

          Seriously though, especially among men who've been friends since childhood or even early adulthood, to see some of those groups using nicknames they all use and accept among themselves that are straight up insults. Things like Fat-- [person with large buttocks or just generally obese] or Dip- [with the last part being a word for poop that when combined with the first means someone who isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer] are typical examples.

          In an odd way they are almost terms of endearment within the group. Anyone else calling them that is different.


          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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          • #50
            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
            To quote me dear brudder, this is about me, isn't it?

            Seriously though, especially among men who've been friends since childhood or even early adulthood, to see some of those groups using nicknames they all use and accept among themselves that are straight up insults. Things like Fat-- [person with large buttocks or just generally obese] or Dip- [with the last part being a word for poop that when combined with the first means someone who isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer] are typical examples.

            In an odd way they are almost terms of endearment within the group. Anyone else calling them that is different.
            It wasn't about you but you serve as a good example.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post

              Many of today's insults were once merely medical terms. Idiot, imbecile, dumb, lame, and retarded are some examples. I think we are just giving jerks more power by making certain words taboo. After all these terms only have as much power as society gives them.
              I think that name calling is just another form of bullying. There are people who dismiss school bullying as just a part of school. There are people who will tell that words can't hurt. I can't help it, but simply despise both actions.

              Unfortunately, more and more people are just buying into ideas like that. Quite a few news sites like The New York Times have promoted this line of thinking. One place even tries to claim that the USDA food guidelines are racist. Too many people have made the leap from some people using milk as a sign of white supremacy to all people drinking it are white supremacists or are supporting white supremacy. They are just giving more power to the alt-right and neo-Nazis by doing so.

              At least with Vegans, I understand their objection to milk.
              Until your posts I had never heard about milk drinkers being accused of white supremacy...... Unfortunately I don't drink milk other than in tea so I won't have the joy of being able to respond to any such accusations.

              Vegans do seem to have a case. In that McDonalds encounter they told me that Cows produce vast quantities of methane etc etc They just picked a non-milk drinker!!

              I somewhat disagree here. What is considered "obvious joking" for one person might not be for another. It needs to be left up to the group of friends what is and isn't acceptable to them. Some people prefer a very dry and dark sense of humor and what may appear to others as a serious insult is a joke between friends. I'd put it like this, there shouldn't be any harassment and you should respect people's boundaries.
              That is what I was trying to say, just in a different way. We must know our friends well before we relax rules. I have a close friend who I can insult and he laughs; but if I was to make fun of his football team it would be a dreadful insult!

              That part wasn't about friendly banter but about empathy vs harshness. The truth is quite often harsh and people need to be prepared to hear it when it is. At other times they need an empathetic listener. Being unable to handle one or the other is going to harm someone in the long run.
              Being cruel-to-be-kind? That can go badly wrong. And 'yes', cruelty for kindness can cause harm, either way.

              Listening is all. Many years ago I decided to receive counselling about my late wife, and the young counsellor didn't speak more than a couple of sentences in the whole hour of any session. In training for the Samaritans I learned that no advice is ever given....only necessary questions may be asked. Listening is all.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by eider View Post
                I think that name calling is just another form of bullying. There are people who dismiss school bullying as just a part of school. There are people who will tell that words can't hurt. I can't help it, but simply despise both actions.
                It's not as simple as that but I will agree that words can definitely hurt.

                Until your posts I had never heard about milk drinkers being accused of white supremacy...... Unfortunately I don't drink milk other than in tea so I won't have the joy of being able to respond to any such accusations.
                Due to teachings like CRT, there are people looking for racism under every rock. Since they look at everything through the lens of race everything appears racist to them.

                Vegans do seem to have a case. In that McDonalds encounter they told me that Cows produce vast quantities of methane etc etc They just picked a non-milk drinker!!
                I looked into the argument about methane from cows among other supposed issues, and most of them are omitting a lot of information. Like how cows are part of a pre-existing natural methane cycle, how the water they consume is greater than 90% provided by the grass they eat, and how alternative milk options are far greater emitters of greenhouse gasses and would require significantly more land. Veganism is at least as bad with regard to sustainability as our current system and might even be worse.

                That is what I was trying to say, just in a different way. We must know our friends well before we relax rules. I have a close friend who I can insult and he laughs; but if I was to make fun of his football team it would be a dreadful insult!
                Ah, okay. I think we agree more than we disagree on this.

                Being cruel-to-be-kind? That can go badly wrong. And 'yes', cruelty for kindness can cause harm, either way.

                Listening is all. Many years ago I decided to receive counselling about my late wife, and the young counsellor didn't speak more than a couple of sentences in the whole hour of any session. In training for the Samaritans I learned that no advice is ever given....only necessary questions may be asked. Listening is all.
                Only listening might work in some cases but not all. Sometimes people need practical advice and sometimes they need to be confronted with a harsh truth. Finding a balance and discerning which method is right for the moment is necessary for any of these to work. On one extreme you get people who are unwilling to face harsh truths and accept constructive criticism and on the other, you have people who have bottled up their emotions and are unwilling to accept help when they need it.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                  It's not as simple as that but I will agree that words can definitely hurt.
                  People who use words to intentionally hurt, harass and upset others are bullies.

                  It's different when a person uses words to adjust another's point of view, as in debate.

                  Due to teachings like CRT, there are people looking for racism under every rock. Since they look at everything through the lens of race everything appears racist to them.
                  Not all critical race theory is extreme, but I would expect race extremists to quote it all the time.
                  I feel sad for any kind of extremism because it is wasting precious life.

                  I looked into the argument about methane from cows among other supposed issues, and most of them are omitting a lot of information. Like how cows are part of a pre-existing natural methane cycle, how the water they consume is greater than 90% provided by the grass they eat, and how alternative milk options are far greater emitters of greenhouse gasses and would require significantly more land. Veganism is at least as bad with regard to sustainability as our current system and might even be worse.
                  I do know some vegetarians and vegans and would listen to any explanations about their lifestyles....... until any of them try to tell me about me, or sell me their lifestyle. If my wife and I cannot enjoy Fish 'n' chips on the seafront or a McDonalds in the woods then we would stasrt to feel some anger.

                  Only listening might work in some cases but not all. Sometimes people need practical advice and sometimes they need to be confronted with a harsh truth. Finding a balance and discerning which method is right for the moment is necessary for any of these to work. On one extreme you get people who are unwilling to face harsh truths and accept constructive criticism and on the other, you have people who have bottled up their emotions and are unwilling to accept help when they need it.
                  I don't think that telling people stuff helps much, it can even cause damage.
                  Asking questions seems to be the best way to adjust mindsets, because questions cause thoughts, and a person can later decide that they changed themselves. That's much better than telling stuff to folks, I think.

                  Or can you think of a situation where harsh truth might work better?

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                  • #54
                    Apparently there is a fuss on social media concerning current champion of Jeopardy who is said to bear a resemblance to a certain infamous European dictator.

                    leading him to quit social media and cut his hair and grow a goatee.

                    This led to a discussion on TV where someone posited that his friends obviously didn't tease him enough about it for him to be aware of it. Basically, it was argued he needed to have been bullied more about it.

                    I'm always still in trouble again

                    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by eider View Post
                      People who use words to intentionally hurt, harass and upset others are bullies.

                      It's different when a person uses words to adjust another's point of view, as in debate.
                      I'd add that those things need to be the primary goals alongside intentional.

                      Not all critical race theory is extreme, but I would expect race extremists to quote it all the time.
                      I feel sad for any kind of extremism because it is wasting precious life.
                      CRT is just the Marxist-inspired Critical Theory applied to the lens of race instead of class. It's all about overthrowing Capitalism, which they equate with "white supremacy".

                      I do know some vegetarians and vegans and would listen to any explanations about their lifestyles....... until any of them try to tell me about me, or sell me their lifestyle. If my wife and I cannot enjoy Fish 'n' chips on the seafront or a McDonalds in the woods then we would stasrt to feel some anger.
                      I agree.

                      I don't think that telling people stuff helps much, it can even cause damage.
                      Asking questions seems to be the best way to adjust mindsets, because questions cause thoughts, and a person can later decide that they changed themselves. That's much better than telling stuff to folks, I think.

                      Or can you think of a situation where harsh truth might work better?
                      In many cases, questions are better but in others, a wake-up call is needed. The softer and kinder approach of asking questions didn't work for someone close to me. It wasn't until he pushed me to my breaking point and I snapped that he listened and stopped being so self-destructive and lashing out at those who just wanted to help him. It takes a lot to push me to the breaking point. Around four years of trying the approach of asking questions and trying to be gentle about what was going on before that happened. If I hadn't done that there is a good chance I wouldn't have seen him ever again.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                        In many cases, questions are better but in others, a wake-up call is needed. The softer and kinder approach of asking questions didn't work for someone close to me.
                        No approach works every time with any person......... but there isn't any example that can excuse (for example) children being psycho or physio bullied.

                        It wasn't until he pushed me to my breaking point and I snapped that he listened and stopped being so self-destructive and lashing out at those who just wanted to help him. It takes a lot to push me to the breaking point. Around four years of trying the approach of asking questions and trying to be gentle about what was going on before that happened. If I hadn't done that there is a good chance I wouldn't have seen him ever again.
                        Can you describe the situation that you have referred to?

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by eider View Post
                          No approach works every time with any person......... but there isn't any example that can excuse (for example) children being psycho or physio bullied.
                          I agree but I've seen this kind of thing taken too far. People defending themselves from bullies, usually covert bullies, are accused of being bullies for example. While actual bullying is bad it's much more nuanced than "that person said/did something mean, they are a bully".

                          Can you describe the situation that you have referred to?
                          Well, the person I mention was in an abusive relationship and took that out on others. For years I had tried the method of asking questions in hopes that he would realize just how badly he was being treated. He wasn't in the relationship anymore but he hadn't yet realized how badly he was being treated. One day he started accusing someone else I care about of things that weren't true and tried to use my gentler approach as a cudgel against said person. That's when the meltdown* started and I said everything I had wanted to say for years all at once and rather harshly. Instead of getting mad and storming out like he had been planning to, he shut up and listened. After I was finished we were able to have an actual discussion about what had been happening.

                          *It wasn't until later that I realized that it was part mental breakdown and part autistic meltdown. It is one of the very few times in my life that I've been mad enough to cuss.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post

                            I agree but I've seen this kind of thing taken too far. People defending themselves from bullies, usually covert bullies, are accused of being bullies for example. While actual bullying is bad it's much more nuanced than "that person said/did something mean, they are a bully".
                            Saying something nasty to another in a single incident isn't what I am thinking of. Bullying doesn't have to be via words or assaults.... exclusion, victimization, criminal damage, blackmail, a long list of actions which can cause pain or grief in another, this can be the face of bullying. In the UK we are very conscious now about adult bullying in the workplace or even in social groups, as well as bullying amongst children. And it can be surprising sometimes, to discover who bullies are.

                            I know a middle age lady who walks out with her dog, and she tends to look down as she walks, and offers nice smiles and sweet greetings to those that she passes. But she drives a large car and when she is in it she becomes a tyrant.

                            Well, the person I mention was in an abusive relationship and took that out on others. For years I had tried the method of asking questions in hopes that he would realize just how badly he was being treated. He wasn't in the relationship anymore but he hadn't yet realized how badly he was being treated. One day he started accusing someone else I care about of things that weren't true and tried to use my gentler approach as a cudgel against said person. That's when the meltdown* started and I said everything I had wanted to say for years all at once and rather harshly. Instead of getting mad and storming out like he had been planning to, he shut up and listened. After I was finished we were able to have an actual discussion about what had been happening.

                            *It wasn't until later that I realized that it was part mental breakdown and part autistic meltdown. It is one of the very few times in my life that I've been mad enough to cuss.
                            Wow, what a difficult situation...... I hope your friend is at peace with themself now.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by eider View Post
                              Saying something nasty to another in a single incident isn't what I am thinking of. Bullying doesn't have to be via words or assaults.... exclusion, victimization, criminal damage, blackmail, a long list of actions which can cause pain or grief in another, this can be the face of bullying. In the UK we are very conscious now about adult bullying in the workplace or even in social groups, as well as bullying amongst children. And it can be surprising sometimes, to discover who bullies are.
                              I didn't say that you were thinking that, I was just trying to point out how even anti-bullying measures can be taken too far and abused. I've seen too many covert bullies completely get away with their shenanigans or even be praised for "standing up for themselves". Many people just don't understand covert bullies or how they operate.

                              I know a middle age lady who walks out with her dog, and she tends to look down as she walks, and offers nice smiles and sweet greetings to those that she passes. But she drives a large car and when she is in it she becomes a tyrant.
                              Now I'm picturing an old lady driving around a neighborhood in a monster truck terrorizing the people there. I know that's not what's happening but that's what comes to mind when reading that.

                              Wow, what a difficult situation...... I hope your friend is at peace with themself now.
                              Yeah, it was a very stressful situation but it needed to happen. Things have gotten a lot better for everyone involved than they were then but there is still room for improvement.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post

                                I didn't say that you were thinking that, I was just trying to point out how even anti-bullying measures can be taken too far and abused. I've seen too many covert bullies completely get away with their shenanigans or even be praised for "standing up for themselves". Many people just don't understand covert bullies or how they operate.
                                I agree. Many bullies do find that 'standing up' is easy..... And 'yes', the word 'bully' is so distasteful here (UK) that a political enemy can damage a reputation with such a claim. It's a similar situation with some claims of Anti-Semitism, but I only offer gthat as an example because a political leaser was forced out of office with that claim and it wasn't even necessary to produce any evidence.

                                Now I'm picturing an old lady driving around a neighborhood in a monster truck terrorizing the people there. I know that's not what's happening but that's what comes to mind when reading that.
                                It's not far off. The car is a Jaguar SUV and she does indeed drive aggressively.

                                Yeah, it was a very stressful situation but it needed to happen. Things have gotten a lot better for everyone involved than they were then but there is still room for improvement.
                                Your actions seem to have worked, then. Very good.

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