Schizoaffectation..... is this how we react to our police?

[Cerebrum123]

Do you think that actors playing a role are masking? It could be that some learned how to act through early 'masking'.

Well, you did say these were an "alter-ego" which implies a bit more than acting to me. Superman and Clark Kent are both the same person but they hide certain aspects of themselves depending on the situation. There is a correlation between masking and acting. Usually, it is because someone has had practice masking that they have experience in pretending to be someone else. Being able to analyze the thoughts and behaviors of other people is also important. It is also more socially acceptable for an actor to be eccentric than for other professions. Given all of that, it's not surprising when I hear from other autistics that there are more autistics in acting than in some other professions.

In my case I took great interest in certain kinds of dishonest mindset. There are obviously many reasons that a person might steal and most retailers tend to immediately think of a person feeding a habit, or poverty, or semi professionalism.....etc. I took great interest in this; it seemed obvious to me that dishonesty ranges through all classes, abilities, types etc but 'people only think of certain types' and cannot imagine certain others as being a problem. I set out to catch those thieves whom nobody would ever imagine to be thieves, for example the person who looks down upon shop workers as low IQ fools and believes that their way of theft is beyond suspicion and thus 'safe'......and in order to test this theory I needed to become various types of persons who such people might 'dismiss', write-off or pay no attention or mind to. I only worked in retail for 2-3 days a week but my arrest rate was much higher than full time thief catchers and I caught thieves that often totally shocked the staff ..... an Politician's wife, or a senior police officer, a Royal Marines Major.... etc,..... one of my alter-egos was a a derelict senile homeless thirty years older than self, with odd coloured socks and ill fitting clothes............. A kind of masking I guess.

That does make me think of Anthony Hopkins and how he described his view of acting. He was intensely interested in analyzing the characters, their motivations, and their behavior. This level of interest is also often accompanied by a strong work ethic, which often leads to higher results than the average person.

The 'Ableist' mindset is a real shocker and insinuated through our whole society (UK). It can start before school and gathers pace through the school years. We all used to make fun of 'Denis' who couldn't hold attention in classes and he could get beaten most weeks because masters thought that attention deficiency was laziness and that it could be stopped by the permanent presence of intense fear. He also used to get his hair pulled out in clumps by irritated masters. I hated aby kind of ableism ever since.

While usually not quite this intense it's still a major problem here in the USA. Places like the Judge Rotenberg Center for Education were using rather horrific methods to try and stop certain behaviors. The most infamous method was a device that students were forced to wear that gave an electric shock any time they didn't follow orders. Not only was the shock stronger than that of a cattle prod but the duration could be extended significantly longer as well.

Transphobia does exist here but I don't think it's anything like in parts of the USA. A wonderful man, Paul O'Grady who was the drag artist 'Lilly Savage' before health issues semi retired him has recently died, but he has left two main legacies behind......... Animal care and LGBT acceptance in our communities. The whole country loved him dearly imo.

One problem is that the term transphobia has been weaponized against people in very disturbing ways. Now many are claiming that it is transphobic for a heterosexual person to not want to date someone who is transgender or someone being called transphobic for not wanting children to be put through these irreversible procedures when most kids grow out of Gender Dysphoria once they go through puberty.

I am glad that you've brought this subject up to my attention. I will take moere interest in it from now on.

There is a lot of interesting information on that channel. I know it was helpful when I was still trying to figure out whether or not I might have autism.

I wonder which is the most important, if a person could only have stronger IQ or stronger CS? I tend to recognise Common Sense in some people as (what we call) Street Wisdom, but then these folks might in fact have very high intelligence but no qualifications or education. An interesting subject....

I think they are both important and it is unfortunate that so many downplay either. The three main areas of intelligence I see are IQ, Common Sense or Practical Intelligence, and Emotional Intelligence/EQ. Personally, I think they all overlap in a Venn Diagram but I don't really have proof of that.

[Cerebrum123]

Here in the U.S. teachers like that would be removed from their positions and likely prosecuted.

Maybe now but even recently you had the Judge Rotenberg Center for Education using special shock devices on their students. They should have been shut down long before but always managed to escape any long term consequences.

[eider]

Here in the U.S. teachers like that would be removed from their positions and likely prosecuted.

That's what would happen today, but 65 years ago......no.

[eider]

[QUOTE=Cerebrum123;n1470339]

While usually not quite this intense it's still a major problem here in the USA. Places like the Judge Rotenberg Center for Education were using rather horrific methods to try and stop certain behaviors. The most infamous method was a device that students were forced to wear that gave an electric shock any time they didn't follow orders. Not only was the shock stronger than that of a cattle prod but the duration could be extended significantly longer as well. [QUOTE]
That is just dreadful..... Electric shock dog collars were banned in the UK several years ago, but the idea that these were fitted to humans is very surprising.

One problem is that the term transphobia has been weaponized against people in very disturbing ways. Now many are claiming that it is transphobic for a heterosexual person to not want to date someone who is transgender or someone being called transphobic for not wanting children to be put through these irreversible procedures when most kids grow out of Gender Dysphoria once they go through puberty.

That's just sad..... Bite-back use of terms and titles is pretty common, that's just another one. But bigotry about gender, sex and sexual identity is very sad as well. On a thread about a mass shooting I saw a post which was devoted to pointing out and showing the pictures of four lbgt people who had committed such crimes, when about 100 such incidents have happened in the last three months. I feel sadness for anybody with a phobia, but deep set hatred can be very dangerous.

LGBT hatred was displayed to our whole country in a very popular telly program in an episode where four celebrities were were travelling across Texas USA in old vehicles which they deliberately painted in LGBT symbols and colour schemes....when they pulled in to a filling station for fuel the female manager was so outraged by their presence that she called out her relatives to confront all.......with their guns. The message whipped around here so fast.........

I think they are both important and it is unfortunate that so many downplay either. The three main areas of intelligence I see are IQ, Common Sense or Practical Intelligence, and Emotional Intelligence/EQ. Personally, I think they all overlap in a Venn Diagram but I don't really have proof of that.

Titles that apply to various kinds of intelligence could be as complex as the light spectrum....... a rainbow of mental abilities.

My late wife had a neurological condition that was diagnosed as a psychiatric condition and she spent some years in and around psychiatric 'care'. I used to visit her in one of the huge psychiatric hospitals (big as small towns) before they were all closed down (1970s--80s) We would often walk to the hospital cafeteria where we met regular customers and got to know several characters....... they all showed that they had deep educations and had held professional jobs, such as research chemist, etc. Everybody needs to learn that ability can be struck down out of the blue, and intellect can be reduced to a mere nothing in a split second. I despise the conditions of intellectual arrogance and physical narcissism, but feel sad for those afflicted by them.

[Cerebrum123]

That is just dreadful..... Electric shock dog collars were banned in the UK several years ago, but the idea that these were fitted to humans is very surprising.

These devices were significantly more powerful than the shock collars on dogs. I've read the patent and the reports of the victims, these things are torture devices. People are able to justify horrific things in the name of "the greater good". Before these shock devices, it was stuff like forced sterilization and lobotomies. They weren't the first and they won't be the last.

That's just sad..... Bite-back use of terms and titles is pretty common, that's just another one. But bigotry about gender, sex and sexual identity is very sad as well. On a thread about a mass shooting I saw a post which was devoted to pointing out and showing the pictures of four lbgt people who had committed such crimes, when about 100 such incidents have happened in the last three months. I feel sadness for anybody with a phobia, but deep set hatred can be very dangerous.

Such retaliation is definitely common and understandable but it just continues the cycle of hatred. We need more people taught on how to end such cycles rather than continue them.

As for the thread you mention there is some key context that is missing. In the last seven years or so there has been a trend of legitimizing violence from the left. These kinds of things are a symptom of the increasing polarization and extremism being fomented in the USA by both sides. Unless we can find a way to de-escalate and deal with the root of these problems all of this is going to continue. I think the left and the right are being dumb on almost all issues.

LGBT hatred was displayed to our whole country in a very popular telly program in an episode where four celebrities were were travelling across Texas USA in old vehicles which they deliberately painted in LGBT symbols and colour schemes....when they pulled in to a filling station for fuel the female manager was so outraged by their presence that she called out her relatives to confront all.......with their guns. The message whipped around here so fast.........

While I know there are people out there who are willing to do stuff like that I am very wary of any popular television show depicting such an event truthfully. There are just too many incidents of deceptively edited footage or even outright staged incidents for me to pick a side unless I can get access to the unedited footage and full context of the event. This goes for popular television on the right too.

Titles that apply to various kinds of intelligence could be as complex as the light spectrum....... a rainbow of mental abilities.

It might actually be even more complex than that. With light, you have frequencies from low to high but with intelligence, you get numerous factors all at different levels. That's one reason I don't particularly like phrases like "The Autism Spectrum", I think it causes more confusion. I think it is more like those graphs, usually with at least 5 points, that make a visual representation of various traits. The Aspie Quiz has one of these kinds of graphs on the results screen.

My late wife had a neurological condition that was diagnosed as a psychiatric condition and she spent some years in and around psychiatric 'care'. I used to visit her in one of the huge psychiatric hospitals (big as small towns) before they were all closed down (1970s--80s) We would often walk to the hospital cafeteria where we met regular customers and got to know several characters....... they all showed that they had deep educations and had held professional jobs, such as research chemist, etc. Everybody needs to learn that ability can be struck down out of the blue, and intellect can be reduced to a mere nothing in a split second. I despise the conditions of intellectual arrogance and physical narcissism, but feel sad for those afflicted by them.

People just don't realize what they've got until it's gone. I'm guilty of this with my physical capabilities. I was never exceptional there but I went from being able to walk, to crutches, to a wheelchair and back. I do still use a wheelchair at times but mostly when I am worn out or in a place where I could get hurt. If I walk around without it people will pat me on the shoulder or try to shake my hand. When that happens I can go down easily.

[eider]

These devices were significantly more powerful than the shock collars on dogs. I've read the patent and the reports of the victims, these things are torture devices. People are able to justify horrific things in the name of "the greater good". Before these shock devices, it was stuff like forced sterilization and lobotomies. They weren't the first and they won't be the last.

As for the thread you mention there is some key context that is missing. In the last seven years or so there has been a trend of legitimizing violence from the left. These kinds of things are a symptom of the increasing polarization and extremism being fomented in the USA by both sides. Unless we can find a way to de-escalate and deal with the root of these problems all of this is going to continue. I think the left and the right are being dumb on almost all issues.

Extremist Lefts, Rights, vegans, greens, feminists, anything........ extreme anything is no good.

While I know there are people out there who are willing to do stuff like that I am very wary of any popular television show depicting such an event truthfully. There are just too many incidents of deceptively edited footage or even outright staged incidents for me to pick a side unless I can get access to the unedited footage and full context of the event. This goes for popular television on the right too.

Sadly, humans lie. Even a one-on-one interview can be doctored. I expect that most politicians and businesses now insist upon uncut footage or a preview of any editing.

It might actually be even more complex than that. With light, you have frequencies from low to high but with intelligence, you get numerous factors all at different levels. That's one reason I don't particularly like phrases like "The Autism Spectrum", I think it causes more confusion. I think it is more like those graphs, usually with at least 5 points, that make a visual representation of various traits. The Aspie Quiz has one of these kinds of graphs on the results screen.

Oh yes........ since no two minds are exactly the same (like fingerprints) then I agree with you absolutely.

People just don't realize what they've got until it's gone. I'm guilty of this with my physical capabilities. I was never exceptional there but I went from being able to walk, to crutches, to a wheelchair and back. I do still use a wheelchair at times but mostly when I am worn out or in a place where I could get hurt. If I walk around without it people will pat me on the shoulder or try to shake my hand. When that happens I can go down easily.

Yes......... I enjoy carrying out the most basic functions because I know the horrors of not being able to carry them out.

[Cerebrum123]

Extremist Lefts, Rights, vegans, greens, feminists, anything........ extreme anything is no good.

Extremism of any kind is bad but I was trying to explain why it was being pointed out in the thread you mention. It used to be that if someone who was on your side of an issue did something bad you would condemn them for it and try to dissociate but now we see people but now we see people justifying it instead.

Sadly, humans lie. Even a one-on-one interview can be doctored. I expect that most politicians and businesses now insist upon uncut footage or a preview of any editing.

That is quite true and I've seen it happen to Jordan Peterson. Even if you don't like him you shouldn't be for the deceptive editing that happened.

Oh yes........ since no two minds are exactly the same (like fingerprints) then I agree with you absolutely.

Not quite what I had in mind but that would work for the general population.

Yes......... I enjoy carrying out the most basic functions because I know the horrors of not being able to carry them out.

[eider]

Extremism of any kind is bad but I was trying to explain why it was being pointed out in the thread you mention. It used to be that if someone who was on your side of an issue did something bad you would condemn them for it and try to dissociate but now we see people but now we see people justifying it instead.

Yes, I got your meaning, was only adding my own thoughts...... and of course, extremists justify those who also follow their extremes.

That is quite true and I've seen it happen to Jordan Peterson. Even if you don't like him you shouldn't be for the deceptive editing that happened.

60 years ago a really aggressive businessman bought a mobile home site, turned off all the residents within some legal loophole and then offered lovely plots for any who would buy nice new mobile homes from him, at new ground rates. A really tough reporter for BBC News invited him to answer questions on television. His lawyers insisted that interview had to be shown uncut. and that he be paid for all his expenses for taking part. The BBC thought they could nail him and his reputation for ever, but in the interview this man was so honest, so direct, so disarmingly true-but-ruthless that he turned the tables completely round. Before the interview his snarks had found out so much dark history surrounding the interviewer that he crushed all attacks to pieces..... The interviewer ended the session, not him!

Not quite what I had in mind but that would work for the general population.

I think it works for humanity.

[Cerebrum123]

Yes, I got your meaning, was only adding my own thoughts...... and of course, extremists justify those who also follow their extremes.

Ah, ok. I tend to instinctively try and clarify myself whenever I think there might be a misunderstanding.

60 years ago a really aggressive businessman bought a mobile home site, turned off all the residents within some legal loophole and then offered lovely plots for any who would buy nice new mobile homes from him, at new ground rates. A really tough reporter for BBC News invited him to answer questions on television. His lawyers insisted that interview had to be shown uncut. and that he be paid for all his expenses for taking part. The BBC thought they could nail him and his reputation for ever, but in the interview this man was so honest, so direct, so disarmingly true-but-ruthless that he turned the tables completely round. Before the interview his snarks had found out so much dark history surrounding the interviewer that he crushed all attacks to pieces..... The interviewer ended the session, not him!

We need more journalism like that.

I think it works for humanity.

I think it works great for explaining human intelligence in general. For certain developmental disorders, I think we need new terminology instead of just saying "on the X spectrum". It just confuses more than elucidates.

[eider]

Ah, ok. I tend to instinctively try and clarify myself whenever I think there might be a misunderstanding.



We need more journalism like that.



I think it works great for explaining human intelligence in general. For certain developmental disorders, I think we need new terminology instead of just saying "on the X spectrum". It just confuses more than elucidates.

[eider]

Ah, ok. I tend to instinctively try and clarify myself whenever I think there might be a misunderstanding.

That's fine....... no probs.

We need more journalism like that.

We just don't see enough instances where smarty-pants journalists get hammered. But I do enjoy it when this happens.

I think it works great for explaining human intelligence in general. For certain developmental disorders, I think we need new terminology instead of just saying "on the X spectrum". It just confuses more than elucidates.

The term ;'On the spectrum' seems to have become another way for the uninformed to write off very worthwhile hearts and minds. Their loss.

As medical research discovers and isolates particular conditions, so the terminology will develop with any support that might be necessary.
In my lifetime a whole mass of conditions and illnesses were clumped together, stuffed in to huge mental hospitals and forgotten by communities and even families. Each hospital's name was isolated to become simply 'St Augustines, or Severalls or Bethlem etc, and any person who entered those doors as any kind of patient would be estranged to some extent or other. I think people were frightened to be seen associating with anybody who was not 'normal'. How sad our society could be at times, back in the 50's

[Cerebrum123]

That's fine....... no probs.

We just don't see enough instances where smarty-pants journalists get hammered. But I do enjoy it when this happens.

True, there are many "journalists" that need to be taken down a peg or two.

The term ;'On the spectrum' seems to have become another way for the uninformed to write off very worthwhile hearts and minds. Their loss.

That's true of pretty much any term or phrase relating to people with some condition or another. It's just part of a cycle that is almost universal regarding them. A new term is made so it can inform others about X group and their potential support needs, the term is turned into an insult, later it loses the original meaning with no value judgment, and then a new term is made to be less offensive. Terms like "idiot", "imbecile", "special", and in the UK "spaz", have all gone through this cycle. I think we need to stop giving so much power to those who use these terms in such a way, otherwise, we will eventually run out of vocabulary to use.

As medical research discovers and isolates particular conditions, so the terminology will develop with any support that might be necessary.
In my lifetime a whole mass of conditions and illnesses were clumped together, stuffed in to huge mental hospitals and forgotten by communities and even families. Each hospital's name was isolated to become simply 'St Augustines, or Severalls or Bethlem etc, and any person who entered those doors as any kind of patient would be estranged to some extent or other. I think people were frightened to be seen associating with anybody who was not 'normal'. How sad our society could be at times, back in the 50's

While not quite as barbaric as back then the same problem still exists. Anyone who doesn't fit society's idea of "normal" becomes an outcast. Most of my friends growing up and even to an extent now are outcasts for one reason or another. Without a radical change in how humans behave this will always be a problem.

[eider]

That's true of pretty much any term or phrase relating to people with some condition or another. It's just part of a cycle that is almost universal regarding them. A new term is made so it can inform others about X group and their potential support needs, the term is turned into an insult, later it loses the original meaning with no value judgment, and then a new term is made to be less offensive. Terms like "idiot", "imbecile", "special", and in the UK "spaz", have all gone through this cycle. I think we need to stop giving so much power to those who use these terms in such a way, otherwise, we will eventually run out of vocabulary to use.

Oh yes...... I remember 'spaz'. I was in a store in Margate UK back in 1991 and a group of deaf youths were there, signing to each other. (There was a famous school for deaf in Margate at that time). A couple of lads came in, saw the deaf youths signing and then began to imitate and laugh at them.
'How nasty!' I thought.
And then a boy with cerebal palsy came in staggering his way forward on crutches, and all the deaf boys started laughing and imitating this boy's actions.
I wondered if that boy might might also laugh at some other condition.

While not quite as barbaric as back then the same problem still exists. Anyone who doesn't fit society's idea of "normal" becomes an outcast. Most of my friends growing up and even to an extent now are outcasts for one reason or another. Without a radical change in how humans behave this will always be a problem.

It is a situation that's needs working on, in perpetuity. Humanity can be so touching, and yet so ruthlessly harsh.

[Cerebrum123]

Oh yes...... I remember 'spaz'. I was in a store in Margate UK back in 1991 and a group of deaf youths were there, signing to each other. (There was a famous school for deaf in Margate at that time). A couple of lads came in, saw the deaf youths signing and then began to imitate and laugh at them.
'How nasty!' I thought.
And then a boy with cerebal palsy came in staggering his way forward on crutches, and all the deaf boys started laughing and imitating this boy's actions.
I wondered if that boy might might also laugh at some other condition.

Until a couple of years ago I didn't even know that "spaz" was considered offensive in certain places. Over here it can mean anything from hyperactive to something along the lines of having a seizure. Also, I'm trying to make it so terms like this have as little power as possible. The more society responds negatively to such terms the more power they gain. We live in a world where a handful of trolls can take something innocuous and convince people that it's a sign of hate with little effort. They did this with the okay hand sign and milk and way too many people just believed these 4chan trolls. You now have people who will seriously say that you are a white supremacist if you drink milk.

Even those who have a disability of some kind often look down on others who have a different one. I do think everyone needs to be able to joke about and laugh at each other. It is often an important part of bonding but this can become a big problem when things are one-sided. Then it's just mean-spirited bullying.

It is a situation that's needs working on, in perpetuity. Humanity can be so touching, and yet so ruthlessly harsh.

I agree but I also think we need to be careful not to go overboard in the other direction. Becoming too sensitive about everything can become just as much of a problem. Sometimes harshness is needed in order to deal with certain problems and often the truth itself is often harsh. We need to be able to distinguish between when to be empathetic and compassionate and when to be stern and harsh.

[rogue06]

When I was in school "spaz" was the then popular name of choice for those who would also get called nerds, geeks, dorks and dweebs.

I should note that even popular groups often had derogatory nicknames.

The athletes/jocks were called meatheads, muscle brains and the like.