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Schizoaffectation..... is this how we react to our police?

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  • #16
    There are good cops and bad cops just like there are good people and bad people in any part of society. They are human and have their own biases, political view and prejudices just like other people. On top of that they have sworn to uphold and enforce the law. Which means even if they might not agree with it, so their actions can be influenced by good or bad government officials making good or bad law.

    I don't think there is any way to lump all police under any single umbrella to love or hate them.

    Generally though, I think most police are police because they want to help and protect people.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
      There are good cops and bad cops just like there are good people and bad people in any part of society. They are human and have their own biases, political view and prejudices just like other people. On top of that they have sworn to uphold and enforce the law. Which means even if they might not agree with it, so their actions can be influenced by good or bad government officials making good or bad law.

      I don't think there is any way to lump all police under any single umbrella to love or hate them.

      Generally though, I think most police are police because they want to help and protect people.
      They had gotten fairly good at weeding out the worst of the control freaks and power trippers out during Academy training, but now thanks to the defund movement driving police rolls way down, some are letting people into the force who would have previously been rejected.

      That was apparently the primary problem in Memphis in the death of Tyre Nichols at the hands of four cops.



      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post

        That is a factor too but far from the only one.
        True.......... Which ones were you thinking of?

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          There are good cops and bad cops just like there are good people and bad people in any part of society. They are human and have their own biases, political view and prejudices just like other people. On top of that they have sworn to uphold and enforce the law. Which means even if they might not agree with it, so their actions can be influenced by good or bad government officials making good or bad law.

          I don't think there is any way to lump all police under any single umbrella to love or hate them.

          Generally though, I think most police are police because they want to help and protect people.
          That's a good mindset about police, imo.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by eider View Post

            True.......... Which ones were you thinking of?
            Body language and cultural expectations are also going to play a big role. This is one reason that autistics tend to have a harder time with the police in general. Lack of eye contact or unusual eye contact* can be seen as "deceitful" or "shifty" in the USA. I'm not sure if this applies to their police but in Japan eye contact with superiors is seen as rude or even threatening. Tone of voice can be another big factor and is something many autistics struggle with. Even with an active effort on my part, I can sound either emotionless or overemotional depending on the circumstances. These factors among others have led to many autistics being treated poorly by police, even when they were the victims of a crime.

            *For example I tend to look at a person's nose or mouth rather than their eyes. Eye contact is quite uncomfortable for me and many others with ASD.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post

              Body language and cultural expectations are also going to play a big role. This is one reason that autistics tend to have a harder time with the police in general. Lack of eye contact or unusual eye contact* can be seen as "deceitful" or "shifty" in the USA. I'm not sure if this applies to their police but in Japan eye contact with superiors is seen as rude or even threatening. Tone of voice can be another big factor and is something many autistics struggle with. Even with an active effort on my part, I can sound either emotionless or overemotional depending on the circumstances. These factors among others have led to many autistics being treated poorly by police, even when they were the victims of a crime.
              What about a disabled ID card of some kind? We keep different cards with us here to show official people that we are genuine, whether it is in a parked vehicle or to inform about a condition.

              About 15 years ago an autistic young man brought some items and some expensive razor blades from a Sainsbury's store in a Surrey town. He had a receipt, but some idiot guard stopped him (because of signals such as you have described!) to check his receipt. The guard could not see any razor blades on this receipt because this item did not read 'razor blades' but some abbrevation for the product's long name. To save a long story the guard took hinm to the manager, the idioty manager did not see those blades, they called the ;police who did not count the bloody items on the receipt to discover the facts, and as they arrested and went t manacle this quiet autistic young man, he became a whirlwind of force and action. At his trial the wrongful arrest was proved, the idiotic guard, manager and coppers were shown to have been WRONG, the young man was vindicated, acquitted, recompensed and the story became a national news item. The food store paid a number of thousands of pound to a charity which supports autistic people.

              Yes........... autistic people can look 'wrong' to cops, or at parties, etc.... and so a strong media campaign continues to try and educate people to better understanding and less daftness about this and many other disabilities.

              *For example I tend to look at a person's nose or mouth rather than their eyes. Eye contact is quite uncomfortable for me and many others with ASD.
              I do that! That's me! I look at mouths, in fact I try to get a few feet between me and third party so as to make it less obvious.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by eider View Post
                What about a disabled ID card of some kind? We keep different cards with us here to show official people that we are genuine, whether it is in a parked vehicle or to inform about a condition.
                That sounds like a good idea. We have license plates for disabled veterans and things to hang from the rearview mirror inside the car denoting a disability when you park in a handicapped spot.

                Still, I can see a bunch of folks not wanting something like that for fear it would stigmatize them.

                I'm always still in trouble again

                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by eider View Post
                  What about a disabled ID card of some kind? We keep different cards with us here to show official people that we are genuine, whether it is in a parked vehicle or to inform about a condition.
                  That is encouraged by many in the autistic community for that very reason. The main problems with that are many autistic people are undiagnosed*, and that many people are already trying to avoid the stigma of a diagnosis so won't carry one. I understand where they are coming from since there are still people who will treat you badly if they know you are autistic.

                  About 15 years ago an autistic young man brought some items and some expensive razor blades from a Sainsbury's store in a Surrey town. He had a receipt, but some idiot guard stopped him (because of signals such as you have described!) to check his receipt. The guard could not see any razor blades on this receipt because this item did not read 'razor blades' but some abbrevation for the product's long name. To save a long story the guard took hinm to the manager, the idioty manager did not see those blades, they called the ;police who did not count the bloody items on the receipt to discover the facts, and as they arrested and went t manacle this quiet autistic young man, he became a whirlwind of force and action. At his trial the wrongful arrest was proved, the idiotic guard, manager and coppers were shown to have been WRONG, the young man was vindicated, acquitted, recompensed and the story became a national news item. The food store paid a number of thousands of pound to a charity which supports autistic people.
                  That is a significantly better outcome than many of the stories I have heard while on r/aspergers. Several of those ended in a much more tragic way. I hope he got to pick the charity. I know I wouldn't want the money given to a group like Autism Speaks. Despite being one of the bigger autism "charities" they have a rather shady history and supported places like The Judge Rotenberg Center for Education among other things.

                  Yes........... autistic people can look 'wrong' to cops, or at parties, etc.... and so a strong media campaign continues to try and educate people to better understanding and less daftness about this and many other disabilities.
                  I'm guilty of ignorance on this issue too. I had very little understanding of the subject until I started hyper-fixating on the topic of psychology and managed to find a YouTube channel that discussed Autism and ADHD**. It was like hearing my own life described to me by someone I never met and didn't even know I existed. It was quite unsettling but it was what I needed to hear in order to finally figure things out.

                  I do that! That's me! I look at mouths, in fact I try to get a few feet between me and third party so as to make it less obvious.
                  That's one of many ways that autistic and other people who have difficulty with eye contact mask themselves. I tend to look at the nose or center of the forehead when I'm not wearing sunglasses. When I am wearing them people can't see my eyes so they can't tell I'm not making eye contact. Since I'm sensitive to even low levels of sunlight I wear sunglasses any time I leave the house.

                  *Many are self-diagnosed but that's not going to be taken seriously by law enforcement and can be quite dangerous. I encountered someone online who went off of medication for something else because he was convinced that he was misdiagnosed by people endorsing self-diagnosis. They weren't wrong that misdiagnosis is common but they were wrong in this case.

                  **He also discusses a lot of other things like video games and their philosophical and religious inspirations.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    That sounds like a good idea. We have license plates for disabled veterans and things to hang from the rearview mirror inside the car denoting a disability when you park in a handicapped spot.

                    Still, I can see a bunch of folks not wanting something like that for fear it would stigmatize them.
                    Our disabled have certificates to place on car dashboards so that they can parked more freely. We also do have disability cards here, folks only have to show them to any officials.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post

                      That is encouraged by many in the autistic community for that very reason. The main problems with that are many autistic people are undiagnosed*, and that many people are already trying to avoid the stigma of a diagnosis so won't carry one. I understand where they are coming from since there are still people who will treat you badly if they know you are autistic.

                      That is a significantly better outcome than many of the stories I have heard while on r/aspergers. Several of those ended in a much more tragic way. I hope he got to pick the charity. I know I wouldn't want the money given to a group like Autism Speaks. Despite being one of the bigger autism "charities" they have a rather shady history and supported places like The Judge Rotenberg Center for Education among other things.
                      We are really trying to feature the many neurological and psychological disabilities that such a large % of our population is affected by to some lesser or greater degree.


                      I'm guilty of ignorance on this issue too. I had very little understanding of the subject until I started hyper-fixating on the topic of psychology and managed to find a YouTube channel that discussed Autism and ADHD**. It was like hearing my own life described to me by someone I never met and didn't even know I existed. It was quite unsettling but it was what I needed to hear in order to finally figure things out.

                      That's one of many ways that autistic and other people who have difficulty with eye contact mask themselves. I tend to look at the nose or center of the forehead when I'm not wearing sunglasses. When I am wearing them people can't see my eyes so they can't tell I'm not making eye contact. Since I'm sensitive to even low levels of sunlight I wear sunglasses any time I leave the house.
                      That's me. Snap. It only took seven decades for me to twig all this.
                      One disability that affected my work was that I can't describe faces accurately, probably because I have never looked at them. I had a huge arrest rate in retail and commercial thief catching but I had to keep a person in view all the time up until any detention/arrest. I still cannot remember the faces that I don't and have never looked at directly. It doesn't matter now because I'm retired.



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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by eider View Post
                        We are really trying to feature the many neurological and psychological disabilities that such a large % of our population is affected by to some lesser or greater degree.
                        We are trying over here too but there do seem to be some people who are just claiming autism or various other conditions so they can get views on TikTok. There is a massive surge in Dissociative Identity Disorder, which is still debated if it's even a real disorder but search for it on TikTok and you will find an extremely large amount of people claiming to have it. Many of them claim they are all fully aware of what each of their "alters" is doing but that's not supposed to be possible.

                        That's me. Snap. It only took seven decades for me to twig all this.
                        One disability that affected my work was that I can't describe faces accurately, probably because I have never looked at them. I had a huge arrest rate in retail and commercial thief catching but I had to keep a person in view all the time up until any detention/arrest. I still cannot remember the faces that I don't and have never looked at directly. It doesn't matter now because I'm retired.
                        Don't feel too bad, Anthony Hopkins wasn't diagnosed with ASD until he was in his 80s.

                        Not being able to recognize faces is called prosopagnosia or face blindness. I'm a bit better than I used to be but I'm still pretty bad at recognizing faces. At least I have pretty good voice recognition to compensate.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                          We are trying over here too but there do seem to be some people who are just claiming autism or various other conditions so they can get views on TikTok. There is a massive surge in Dissociative Identity Disorder, which is still debated if it's even a real disorder but search for it on TikTok and you will find an extremely large amount of people claiming to have it. Many of them claim they are all fully aware of what each of their "alters" is doing but that's not supposed to be possible.
                          I made a good living and reputation, all because I could alter my identity...on demand. But I realise that is different from DID. DID causes depression, anxiety and all kinds of problems but as you mention, the 'experts' still don't agree about what they think. It might be best to address any conditions individually. Humanity still tends to think that complexity is more important than simplicity, that in itself is a condition which might gain a title, one day.

                          Folks follow fashions, and when enough empathy or sympathy starts being extended to some situation or condition, then many people will WANT it. Me too! I need attention too!
                          And any rewards, of course......

                          Don't feel too bad, Anthony Hopkins wasn't diagnosed with ASD until he was in his 80s.


                          Not being able to recognize faces is called prosopagnosia or face blindness. I'm a bit better than I used to be but I'm still pretty bad at recognizing faces. At least I have pretty good voice recognition to compensate.
                          Now that I'm thinking about it, my voice recognition does seem capable.

                          We both mentioned 'dope' before now...... I've got a theory that everybody is dopey at times. The mistakes that world leaders make, and we the people who raise them up, and the lack of common sense common in high intelligence, etc. Humanity tends to cling to as much 'sanity' and 'intellect' as it can...... 'Who me? I'm normal, you know, and have a high IQ.......very worth knowing, me.' .......kind of mindset.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by eider View Post
                            I made a good living and reputation, all because I could alter my identity...on demand. But I realise that is different from DID. DID causes depression, anxiety and all kinds of problems but as you mention, the 'experts' still don't agree about what they think. It might be best to address any conditions individually. Humanity still tends to think that complexity is more important than simplicity, that in itself is a condition which might gain a title, one day.
                            To an extent, most people "wear different hats" depending on what they are doing. However, doing so to the point of "altering your identity" sounds like masking again.

                            I somewhat agree with you on individual treatment. However, when one option cures or effectively treats a condition 99% of the time you are better off trying it first before other treatments. And yes, despite Occam's Razor many scientists and academics take complexity as a virtue rather than something that should be eliminated when a simpler explanation comes along.

                            Folks follow fashions, and when enough empathy or sympathy starts being extended to some situation or condition, then many people will WANT it. Me too! I need attention too!
                            And any rewards, of course......
                            That might be obvious to us but it is heavily being denied these days. When you see things like DID, Gender Dysphoria, etc. increasing by orders of magnitude there has to be something more going on but if you point it out you are called "ableist" or "transphobic". People who genuinely have such conditions feeling more accepted certainly contributed to this but the amount of increase is unprecedented compared to other innate characteristics that were suppressed in the past like being left-handed.

                            I'm glad you got a laugh out of that. When looking for the information again I found that he was diagnosed at 77 so I was a bit off.

                            Now that I'm thinking about it, my voice recognition does seem capable.
                            When I was more active on r/aspergers more often I noticed that many people there had higher than average voice recognition. In some cases, I'm able to tell it is the same person even if they are changing their voice rather drastically. This is especially true of prolific voice actors like Jim Cummings. There is even a video on the Autistamatic YouTube channel about the topic and Prosopagnosia.

                            We both mentioned 'dope' before now...... I've got a theory that everybody is dopey at times. The mistakes that world leaders make, and we the people who raise them up, and the lack of common sense common in high intelligence, etc. Humanity tends to cling to as much 'sanity' and 'intellect' as it can...... 'Who me? I'm normal, you know, and have a high IQ.......very worth knowing, me.' .......kind of mindset.
                            Everybody is dopey at times it's part of being human. However, many of the least intelligent people think they are smart, while those who are intelligent don't think they are. It's called the Dunning-Kreuger effect. Combine those with the need of some people to be "special" or "better" than others and you get a lot of what we see. Some people with high intelligence but a lack of common sense are rather insulated from others and the consequences of lacking common sense.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post

                              To an extent, most people "wear different hats" depending on what they are doing. However, doing so to the point of "altering your identity" sounds like masking again.
                              Do you think that actors playing a role are masking? It could be that some learned how to act through early 'masking'.
                              In my case I took great interest in certain kinds of dishonest mindset. There are obviously many reasons that a person might steal and most retailers tend to immediately think of a person feeding a habit, or poverty, or semi professionalism.....etc. I took great interest in this; it seemed obvious to me that dishonesty ranges through all classes, abilities, types etc but 'people only think of certain types' and cannot imagine certain others as being a problem. I set out to catch those thieves whom nobody would ever imagine to be thieves, for example the person who looks down upon shop workers as low IQ fools and believes that their way of theft is beyond suspicion and thus 'safe'......and in order to test this theory I needed to become various types of persons who such people might 'dismiss', write-off or pay no attention or mind to. I only worked in retail for 2-3 days a week but my arrest rate was much higher than full time thief catchers and I caught thieves that often totally shocked the staff ..... an Politician's wife, or a senior police officer, a Royal Marines Major.... etc,..... one of my alter-egos was a a derelict senile homeless thirty years older than self, with odd coloured socks and ill fitting clothes............. A kind of masking I guess.


                              That might be obvious to us but it is heavily being denied these days. When you see things like DID, Gender Dysphoria, etc. increasing by orders of magnitude there has to be something more going on but if you point it out you are called "ableist" or "transphobic". People who genuinely have such conditions feeling more accepted certainly contributed to this but the amount of increase is unprecedented compared to other innate characteristics that were suppressed in the past like being left-handed.
                              The 'Ableist' mindset is a real shocker and insinuated through our whole society (UK). It can start before school and gathers pace through the school years. We all used to make fun of 'Denis' who couldn't hold attention in classes and he could get beaten most weeks because masters thought that attention deficiency was laziness and that it could be stopped by the permanent presence of intense fear. He also used to get his hair pulled out in clumps by irritated masters. I hated aby kind of ableism ever since.
                              Transphobia does exist here but I don't think it's anything like in parts of the USA. A wonderful man, Paul O'Grady who was the drag artist 'Lilly Savage' before health issues semi retired him has recently died, but he has left two main legacies behind......... Animal care and LGBT acceptance in our communities. The whole country loved him dearly imo.

                              When I was more active on r/aspergers more often I noticed that many people there had higher than average voice recognition. In some cases, I'm able to tell it is the same person even if they are changing their voice rather drastically. This is especially true of prolific voice actors like Jim Cummings. There is even a video on the Autistamatic YouTube channel about the topic and Prosopagnosia.
                              I am glad that you've brought this subject up to my attention. I will take moere interest in it from now on.

                              Everybody is dopey at times it's part of being human. However, many of the least intelligent people think they are smart, while those who are intelligent don't think they are. It's called the Dunning-Kreuger effect. Combine those with the need of some people to be "special" or "better" than others and you get a lot of what we see. Some people with high intelligence but a lack of common sense are rather insulated from others and the consequences of lacking common sense.
                              I wonder which is the most important, if a person could only have stronger IQ or stronger CS? I tend to recognise Common Sense in some people as (what we call) Street Wisdom, but then these folks might in fact have very high intelligence but no qualifications or education. An interesting subject....

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by eider View Post




                                The 'Ableist' mindset is a real shocker and insinuated through our whole society (UK). It can start before school and gathers pace through the school years. We all used to make fun of 'Denis' who couldn't hold attention in classes and he could get beaten most weeks because masters thought that attention deficiency was laziness and that it could be stopped by the permanent presence of intense fear. He also used to get his hair pulled out in clumps by irritated masters.
                                Here in the U.S. teachers like that would be removed from their positions and likely prosecuted.

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

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