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"The Spectrum"

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  • #46
    NorrinRadd hi just quickly, was thinking about your flourescent lighting you mentioned. Is it not possible to get the lighting in your home changed or new lighting installed? Here in SA we have an option of warm or cool white led globes. I always choose warm white for my home. It gives off good lighting and has a cosy feel without that operating theatre morgue type horrible lighting of cool white. Lighting does affect mood and there have been times I haven't had a spare bulb to replace a blown one and my lounge was dim and depressing.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post

      I don't agree that it is the fault of the cartoon, as I don't see any other way of explaining how differently autism can present in different people. Autism isn't like the flu, it is a neurodevelopmental disorder, and even small differences in brain "wiring" can have very different results. Places like Autism Speaks(a terrible "charity*") having been claiming an autism epidemic for decades now. However according to most research I've found autism is underdiagnosed, especially in women. Identity politics and a desire to feel "special" are much more to blame for people claiming to be autistic when they are not.

      ADD and ADHD(they aren't entirely the same thing) and can be misdiagnosed, but that is true of any condition. I blame the misdiagnosing and other issues you mention on lazy and/or uninformed parents, teachers, and doctors. ADD/ADHD is highly comorbid with autism, and that can result in a person with a very different personality than a person with one or the other. .

      *They have a very shady history, including supporting the Judge Rotenberg Center for Education a place that has been using shock treatments on autistic people. The devices they used were like the shock collars for dogs on steroids.
      Not saying its the fault of that cartoon but that the attitude that autism can include so many variables that basically anyone can claim (or be diagnosed) to be autistic is detrimental to those who actually have it. The cartoon exemplifies that. And I think some therapists use "autism" as a convenient box to stick someone in so they can claim they know what is wrong with someone. Like you say above, it is laziness. Autism seems to be the "in" diagnosis of the 21st century.


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      • #48
        Yeah, I'm neurodivergent, but not autistic. CHARGE syndrome has its own behavior phenotype. Even had a interview test and they didn't think I had ASD. I like learning about a large variety of topics.
        If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Sparko View Post

          Not saying its the fault of that cartoon but that the attitude that autism can include so many variables that basically anyone can claim (or be diagnosed) to be autistic is detrimental to those who actually have it. The cartoon exemplifies that. And I think some therapists use "autism" as a convenient box to stick someone in so they can claim they know what is wrong with someone. Like you say above, it is laziness. Autism seems to be the "in" diagnosis of the 21st century.
          This is still a severe misinterpretation of what the cartoon is claiming. The challenges that come with being autistic involve the categories they show, and there is quite a bit of variation under each category. Executive functioning, language skills, perception, motor skills, and sensory. All of those areas are affected in some way by having autism. Some of them can be enhanced in a sense, and others can be affected in a way that most people won't notice the struggles an autistic person has, or appear within the normal range of struggles. I'm hyperlexic and learned to speak, and read* at earlier points in life than most, but I'm not good with nonverbal communication. I also have rather flat affect, which means I don't show that much emotion outwardly or in my voice(I'm no Ben Stein, but I'm a bit monotone). I've learned to get better at reading body language, but it it doesn't come naturally to me. I'm hyper sensitive to sound, touch, taste, light and smell. This lets me perceive things other people don't notice(as well as easily allow me to be overwhelmed), but I am hyposensitive when it comes to my proprioception and certain aspects of interoception. Because of that I have a hard time telling when I am hungry, thirsty, or need to go to the bathroom. It also makes me somewhat clumsy. My executive functioning and motor skill difficulties appear within the normal range to others despite my executive functioning being impaired to a clinically significant extent and my clumsiness leading to a lot of problems with physical activity. For most of my life people just wrote off my struggles as me being an oversensitive, clumsy, and socially awkward kid.

          Other autistics can have a different profile in how those areas of life are affected. Like being hyposensitive to what I am hypersensitive to, or they might have such good proprioception that their coordination is effectively increased beyond what you would expect of the average person. They might be fairly average in senses, but have extreme executive function challenges with a lot of difficulty regarding working memory. If they are hyposensitive to lights and sounds they might seek out noisy, brightly lit areas. They could have struggles with verbal language, while not having as many issues with nonverbal communication. This extreme range in both directions has been referred to as a "spiky skillset".

          It's only recently that autism has been an ""in" diagnosis", and even then mostly on TikTok where people collect mental disorders like Pokemon. Even with the expanded definition of the DSM V**, you still only get around 2% of the world's population being diagnosed with it. Unlike ADD/ADHD you can't treat autism with medication, and a diagnosis of ASD doesn't offer a quick fix. The lazy and uninformed doctors aren't likely to just pick something they don't have an easy fix for.

          *Learning to read at just after 3 years old is quite a bit earlier than normal. I was also clearer in speech earlier than most.

          **Prior to that Asperger's Syndrome, and Autism were different things. I think PDD-NOS or Pervasive Development Disorder Not Otherwise Specified is now under the Autism Spectrum Disorder umbrella too.

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          • #50
            People with CHARGE have a higher score on some ASD diagnostic test than other deafblind people but average lower than autism. There's some overlap, but not everyone would qualify as autistic. Anxiety is common, but I would think Anxiety would be rational when one's senses aren't the greatest. Or everyone else has super senses.
            If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
              Yeah, I'm neurodivergent, but not autistic. CHARGE syndrome has its own behavior phenotype. Even had a interview test and they didn't think I had ASD. I like learning about a large variety of topics.
              I like learning in general too, but I have a tendency to fixate on one or two topics at a time. When it comes to "restricted interests" I have always has special interests in video games and animation as my primary topics, and then over time I have usually one or two that fluctuates over time. Usually just one.

              I've noticed some people seem to think neurodivergent just means autistic, and that neurotypical just means not autistic. Have you encountered people who are using those terms like that, or am I just stumbling on a minority of uninformed people?

              Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
              People with CHARGE have a higher score on some ASD diagnostic test than other deafblind people but average lower than autism. There's some overlap, but not everyone would qualify as autistic. Anxiety is common, but I would think Anxiety would be rational when one's senses aren't the greatest. Or everyone else has super senses.
              There is overlap between ASD and multiple different conditions. If you only have problems with sensory processing they call it sensory processing disorder. If you only have issues with communication they call it social communication disorder. If you only have problems with motor control, they call it dyspraxia. If you have all of these and more they call it autism.* ADHD has a bit of overlap with autism, and is highly comorbid with it. I also know that it is fairly common for women to be misdiagnosed as having BPD when they just have autism.

              *That link goes to a bit more in depth explanation of what they comic earlier was trying to explain. It still uses some visual aids to help with understanding.

              Edit. Having heightened senses is anxiety inducing too. Once in the middle of the night I smelled smoke and thought the house might be catching fire, but it turns out it was our neighbors having either a bonfire or BBQ a few houses away.
              Last edited by Cerebrum123; 09-28-2022, 07:18 AM.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post



                **Prior to that Asperger's Syndrome, and Autism were different things. I think PDD-NOS or Pervasive Development Disorder Not Otherwise Specified is now under the Autism Spectrum Disorder umbrella too.
                This. I am glad PDD-NOS has a recognition as being an ASD because it is. PDD-NOS was typically given to academically gifted children with social impairment and sensory disorders who didn't fit a "typical" Asperger's profile or it was given to children with symptoms too severe to be classified as Aspergers but not severe enough to be classified as fully "autistic." They are all ASD types but you mentioned earlier it can now be mild, moderate or severe with subclassifications.
                Also you are 100 percent correct about girls being misdiagnosed with BPD. BPD is real, however girls with adhd and/or autism get misdiagnosed because of emotional breakdowns due to sensory overload.

                A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
                George Bernard Shaw

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Esther View Post
                  NorrinRadd hi just quickly, was thinking about your flourescent lighting you mentioned. Is it not possible to get the lighting in your home changed or new lighting installed? Here in SA we have an option of warm or cool white led globes. I always choose warm white for my home. It gives off good lighting and has a cosy feel without that operating theatre morgue type horrible lighting of cool white. Lighting does affect mood and there have been times I haven't had a spare bulb to replace a blown one and my lounge was dim and depressing.
                  I use the "warm" LED globes where possible. I'd need to get replacement fixtures for the overhead tube-style FLs, and I can't afford that currently.
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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Catholicity View Post

                    This. I am glad PDD-NOS has a recognition as being an ASD because it is. PDD-NOS was typically given to academically gifted children with social impairment and sensory disorders who didn't fit a "typical" Asperger's profile or it was given to children with symptoms too severe to be classified as Aspergers but not severe enough to be classified as fully "autistic." They are all ASD types but you mentioned earlier it can now be mild, moderate or severe with subclassifications.
                    Also you are 100 percent correct about girls being misdiagnosed with BPD. BPD is real, however girls with adhd and/or autism get misdiagnosed because of emotional breakdowns due to sensory overload.
                    When I went for the evaluation earlier this year I was expecting a diagnosis of either ASD 1, or PDD-NOS. I didn't understand at first, but now I see why so many Autistics dislike functioning labels. They do tend to infantilize people with higher needs, and make it harder for people with so called "milder" forms of Autism to get the help they need. Before I was diagnosed people tended to think "you're smart, so you can't possibly be struggling as much as you say you are", and now after I've had some people condescendingly explain things as if I was a child.

                    I think most of the misdiagnoses of people who have ASD come from societal expectations. Girls tend to get lumped in with BPD or HPD. If someone is black and has some of the more common Autistic interests they are accused of "acting white". As a boy I was seen as an oversensitive crybaby and socially awkward. No one suspected I had anything like ASD because I was very good academically. I don't really do it any more, but I used to flap my hands, rock back and forth etc. My kindergarten teacher thought I was mocking one of the other students when I flapped my hands, but I had been doing that long before I met him*. When I told her I had been doing that before I got there she told me to stop doing it "because it is weird". That alongside the treatment I got from others I figured out pretty quickly how to hide a lot of the more obvious aspects of my autism. That probably just led to more problems in the long run, and now it is just physically hard to do most of my early stims.

                    *He was blind, and couldn't speak. I suspect he had Autism as well, but I don't know that for sure.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
                      So, my cousin suggested I get evaluated for autism. I took this online test, and it said I scored a 29. Since my score was in the 26-32 range, it suggests I may have ,.....

                      I'm taking the results as seriously as that comment suggests.
                      I scored 22.
                      As far as Asperger's syndrome, all those that I have known who had been diagnosed as being in Asperger's, these were mostly exceptional people. So many folks that have raised up our many sciences and arts have been such people.

                      I doubt tests like these, but if you had happened to be an Asperger's then very probably you would have had an amazing mind with individually amazing abilities.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by eider View Post

                        I scored 22.
                        That's a score that means a high probability that you have ASD. Just for comparison, I'm officially diagnosed and I got a 25. Some of these tests are a lot more accurate than they would appear.

                        As far as Asperger's syndrome, all those that I have known who had been diagnosed as being in Asperger's, these were mostly exceptional people. So many folks that have raised up our many sciences and arts have been such people.
                        There is a higher correlation between high intelligence and ASD but there is also a higher correlation with lower intelligence. Despite this, most people with it tend to be of average ability. I am in the former category but it is a double-edged sword. I can analyze things better than many but it is rather isolating.

                        By the way, Asperger's Syndrome isn't used much anymore since it was removed from the DSM-V*. Autism Spectrum Disorder is the current diagnosis. It's where "On the Spectrum" comes from IIRC. Many on the left are calling anyone who uses "Asperger's Syndrome" far-right Nazis because of Hans Asperger, the man the diagnosis was named after. He was a doctor in WWII Germany and he was the first to notice autistic traits in people who did not have low IQs. Some say he was working with the Nazis and intentionally sent people with lower intelligence to be killed in euthanasia camps while others say he was trying to save everyone he could. Depending on who you ask he was either another Josef Mengele or he was another Oscar Schindler. Regardless of which one of those is true he did make a lot of contributions to our understanding of ASD.

                        I doubt tests like these, but if you had happened to be an Asperger's then very probably you would have had an amazing mind with individually amazing abilities.
                        Unfortunately, your personal experience can't be generalized to the entire autistic population.

                        *There are other diagnostic manuals for psychiatric conditions but that is the one used in most of(if not all of) Europe, Canada, and the USA.

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post

                          That's a score that means a high probability that you have ASD. Just for comparison, I'm officially diagnosed and I got a 25. Some of these tests are a lot more accurate than they would appear.
                          Some......about as accurate as IQ tests, I expect.

                          There is a higher correlation between high intelligence and ASD but there is also a higher correlation with lower intelligence. Despite this, most people with it tend to be of average ability. I am in the former category but it is a double-edged sword. I can analyze things better than many but it is rather isolating.
                          ....in which case nobody can take an IQ test which is meaningful, because if they then took another different IQ test their result could rise or fall considerably.


                          By the way, Asperger's Syndrome isn't used much anymore since it was removed from the DSM-V*. Autism Spectrum Disorder is the current diagnosis. It's where "On the Spectrum" comes from IIRC. Many on the left are calling anyone who uses "Asperger's Syndrome" far-right Nazis because of Hans Asperger, the man the diagnosis was named after. He was a doctor in WWII Germany and he was the first to notice autistic traits in people who did not have low IQs. Some say he was working with the Nazis and intentionally sent people with lower intelligence to be killed in euthanasia camps while others say he was trying to save everyone he could. Depending on who you ask he was either another Josef Mengele or he was another Oscar Schindler. Regardless of which one of those is true he did make a lot of contributions to our understanding of ASD.
                          The title 'Asperger' first became popular over 20 years after the holocaust, and then became correctable? It's the word that I have known ever since the 80s and come in to contact with in the early nineties.


                          Unfortunately, your personal experience can't be generalized,..........
                          My experiences are my own, and not intended as a generalisation

                          *There are other diagnostic manuals for psychiatric conditions but that is the one used in most of(if not all of) Europe, Canada, and the USA.
                          I expect that there are.
                          ​​​​​​​My experiences stand, as shown.

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by eider View Post
                            Some......about as accurate as IQ tests, I expect.
                            Given they are both accurate for what they are measuring, yes. One of the more common IQ tests measures four things. General knowledge, verbal knowledge, processing speed, and working memory*.

                            ....in which case nobody can take an IQ test which is meaningful, because if they then took another different IQ test their result could rise or fall considerably.
                            You're reading what I'm stating incredibly wrong. Neurological differences that are tied to autism have a higher chance of either very low or very high IQ. It's not the same person scoring high on one test and low on another. The people who have high IQs and the people with low IQs are all autistic but they are different groups of people taking the same test. Most people with autism have an IQ in the average range. There is simply a differently shaped bell curve in the autistic population as compared to the neurotypical population. Tests like the one in the OP are accurate. One of the tests I mentioned in an earlier post is nearly 100% accurate in detecting autism. This specific one is a modified version of the Autism Spectrum Quotient. 79.3% of autistic people have a specific score threshold. Only 2% of the control population scored higher than 32.

                            The title 'Asperger' first became popular over 20 years after the holocaust, and then became correctable? It's the word that I have known ever since the 80s and come in to contact with in the early nineties.
                            Um, the term didn't exist until 1994 but yes it has become verboten by many, especially those on the left. I've seen people labeled all kinds of things just for using the term they were diagnosed with. This is especially cruel as many people who were diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome are going to have difficulty with change. One of those that didn't, Aspigurl, completely rebranded her web-comic to Lily Spectrum complete with a change of her character design. Many people think that keeping the term means condoning a Nazi.

                            My experiences are my own, and not intended as a generalisation

                            I expect that there are.
                            ​​​​​​​My experiences stand, as shown.
                            You go from saying you aren't intending to generalize and then immediately go on to state your general statement regarding your experiences "stand, as shown."

                            *I'm high-average overall, low-average in processing speed and working memory, and above average in verbal IQ. However, these results were well after my prime and during a time of much higher pain than usual. I am always in a lot of pain, but several hours of driving followed by several hours of testing significantly increased my pain. Pain has some pretty drastic impacts on cognitive capacity.

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post

                              Given they are both accurate for what they are measuring, yes. One of the more common IQ tests measures four things. General knowledge, verbal knowledge, processing speed, and working memory*.
                              IQ does not refer to knowledge or memory.

                              You're reading what I'm stating incredibly wrong. Neurological differences that are tied to autism have a higher chance of either very low or very high IQ. It's not the same person scoring high on one test and low on another. The people who have high IQs and the people with low IQs are all autistic but they are different groups of people taking the same test. Most people with autism have an IQ in the average range. There is simply a differently shaped bell curve in the autistic population as compared to the neurotypical population. Tests like the one in the OP are accurate. One of the tests I mentioned in an earlier post is nearly 100% accurate in detecting autism. This specific one is a modified version of the Autism Spectrum Quotient. 79.3% of autistic people have a specific score threshold. Only 2% of the control population scored higher than 32.
                              I very much doubt if any autism tests are 100% accurate. It's all a very inexact subject.

                              Um, the term didn't exist until 1994 but yes it has become verboten by many, especially those on the left. I've seen people labeled all kinds of things just for using the term they were diagnosed with. This is especially cruel as many people who were diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome are going to have difficulty with change. One of those that didn't, Aspigurl, completely rebranded her web-comic to Lily Spectrum complete with a change of her character design. Many people think that keeping the term means condoning a Nazi.
                              First use in early English was in the 12th century.

                              You go from saying you aren't intending to generalize and then immediately go on to state your general statement regarding your experiences "stand, as shown."
                              ​​​​​​​Yes.

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by eider View Post

                                IQ does not refer to knowledge or memory.
                                The term IQ covers several categories of intelligence. General knowledge and memory are tested although they are generally counted as part of the same score. My short-term memory might not be the best but this is some very basic information and is also in my long-term memory now. You've already admitted you haven't taken an IQ test in another thread and you clearly haven't studied IQ tests either. The WAIS-IV* measures numerous areas. I misremembered one of the categories, but here is a citation for what categories one of the most common IQ tests measures.

                                Source: Grunge.com

                                To help us understand IQ a bit better, we can look to the WAIS IV. Described in some detail on Pearson Assessments, the test contains 10 sub-tests that focus on four domains (areas) of intelligence: "verbal comprehension, perceptual reasoning, working memory, and processing speed."

                                © Copyright Original Source



                                Perceptual reasoning is the category I misremembered. I will admit that the test does not measure every aspect of intelligence but it does measure a lot more than you realize. The problems come in when people think it measures more than it claims to. Several of the other categories of intelligence are a lot harder to concretely measure. Stuff like emotional intelligence, and intrapersonal intelligence. Emotions are not something you can concretely measure, so measuring how well someone understands them is also not something you can measure. Intrapersonal intelligence is basically self-awareness. Since we can't look into someone's mind we can't really measure how well they understand themselves.

                                I very much doubt if any autism tests are 100% accurate. It's all a very inexact subject.
                                I said nearly 100 percent accurate. This is of course once a person reaches the threshold for said test. Even the less accurate tests like the one you took have an extremely high rate of accuracy at around 80% accurate in diagnosing autism. It only gets a 2% false positive among the control group. For a free online test, that is incredibly accurate. It is much higher than you will find with other free questionnaires online. There has been a rather large increase in understanding autism in recent decades and the diagnostic tools available are very accurate so long as a person understands the questions and is being honest.

                                First use in early English was in the 12th century.
                                The surname Asperger might go that far back but the diagnosis only goes back to 1994. Hans Asperger, the person that Asperger's Syndrome was named after, wasn't alive that far back. Hans Asperger himself did not coin the diagnosis named after him. Your poor attempt at a "gotcha" has failed miserably.

                                ​​​​​​​Yes.
                                Your statement was in itself a generalization but you go on to claim it wasn't but that it is also accurate. You can go and contradict yourself all you want but it doesn't help your credibility. Not that you had much left.

                                *It's also the test I took at my autism evaluation.

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