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Roadside Memorials

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    Some interesting comments on roadside shrines/memorials. These modern manifestations represent beliefs and behaviours that go back a very long way in human societies.

    Those who die prematurely before their allotted time can be particularly resentful and the belief that the dead in general must be propitiated has very deep roots in human cultures.
    Yeah, this is not that.
    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

      At one level. However, the need to propitiate the dead in various ways has very ancient roots in human societies.
      So in your mind, when someone visits the grave of a loved one and leaves some flowers, it has nothing to do with respect, honoring, love, devotion and the sense of loss. It's all due to fear and because they're placating the dead so they stay dead and buried.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
        So in your mind, when someone visits the grave of a loved one and leaves some flowers, it has nothing to do with respect, honoring, love, devotion and the sense of loss. It's all due to fear and because they're placating the dead.
        I think she was very lamely trying to show us how smart she is, giving us a little history lesson.

        HOWEVER, you might not be wrong!
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

          Yeah, this is not that.
          You think so? Why do people put flowers on graves? Why do the graves of children often have sweets or soft toys placed on them? What purpose does any of that serve?

          "It ain't necessarily so
          The things that you're liable
          To read in the Bible
          It ain't necessarily so
          ."

          Sportin' Life
          Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

            You think so? Why do people put flowers on graves? Why do the graves of children often have sweets or soft toys placed on them? What purpose does any of that serve?
            They're certainly not afraid of the dead.

            They do it as a sign of love, respect, honor, memorial... concepts with which, not surprisingly, you are unfamiliar.
            The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              So in your mind, when someone visits the grave of a loved one and leaves some flowers, it has nothing to do with respect, honoring, love, devotion and the sense of loss. It's all due to fear and because they're placating the dead so they stay dead and buried.
              In part but why flowers? What do flowers symbolise? Even Neanderthal burials have shown evidence of flowers being strewn with the corpse. And why are some ancient burials often found in the foetal position?

              We need to remember that many ancient societies held the belief that the dead resented the living and did not really want to be dead. Hence they had to be propitiated otherwise they could cause trouble.

              "It ain't necessarily so
              The things that you're liable
              To read in the Bible
              It ain't necessarily so
              ."

              Sportin' Life
              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                They're certainly not afraid of the dead.

                They do it as a sign of love, respect, honor, memorial... concepts with which, not surprisingly, you are unfamiliar.
                Isn't it about an underlying fear of the dead and death? No one wants to be dead - even those who believe they will spend eternity in paradise are not generally rushing to get there.

                If there is no fear of death and the dead why are ghost stories/folktales about the dead [and in various forms] found across so many human cultures?
                "It ain't necessarily so
                The things that you're liable
                To read in the Bible
                It ain't necessarily so
                ."

                Sportin' Life
                Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                  In part but why flowers? What do flowers symbolise? Even Neanderthal burials have shown evidence of flowers being strewn with the corpse. And why are some ancient burials often found in the foetal position?

                  We need to remember that many ancient societies held the belief that the dead resented the living and did not really want to be dead. Hence they had to be propitiated otherwise they could cause trouble.
                  So when a man gives the woman he loves flowers, it is a sign that he is afraid of her?


                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                    In part but why flowers? What do flowers symbolise? Even Neanderthal burials have shown evidence of flowers being strewn with the corpse. And why are some ancient burials often found in the foetal position?
                    Are you suggesting that we should indulge in speculation?

                    We need to remember that many ancient societies held the belief that the dead resented the living and did not really want to be dead. Hence they had to be propitiated otherwise they could cause trouble.
                    We need to remember that we do not live in those ancient societies. We need to remember that various societies have their own reasons for doing things that look the same but with differing motivations. We need to remember that superficial evaluations based on casual similarities or personal perspectives can result in a correct evaluation only by accident; normally the evaluation will be wildly inaccurate.

                    Christian burial rituals are not about propitiation.
                    1Cor 15:34 εκνηψατε δικαιως και μη αμαρτανετε αγνωσιαν γαρ θεου τινες εχουσιν προς εντροπην υμιν λεγω
                    Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
                    .
                    "when the church no longer teaches its people why they believe what they believe, the world will often step in and fill in the gaps." Ryan Danker

                    "The synoptic gospels claim that Jesus was crucified on the 15th day of Nisan and buried on the 14th day of Nisan:" Majority Consensus

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                      Isn't it about an underlying fear of the dead and death?
                      It is not.

                      No one wants to be dead - even those who believe they will spend eternity in paradise are not generally rushing to get there.
                      I'm ready to go at any moment, as are many Christians I know. I actually am more concerned about "living too long" than I am about dying.

                      If there is no fear of death and the dead why are ghost stories/folktales about the dead [and in various forms] found across so many human cultures?
                      I know our culture, and MANY of these roadside memorials are part of the Catholic culture.

                      And, no, they don't sacrifice babies at these roadside memorials, either.

                      (By the way, "ghost stories" around the campfire is a great tradition, meant to scare people in fun -- I know you won't get that)

                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                        Isn't it about an underlying fear of the dead and death? No one wants to be dead - even those who believe they will spend eternity in paradise are not generally rushing to get there.

                        If there is no fear of death and the dead why are ghost stories/folktales about the dead [and in various forms] found across so many human cultures?
                        Again you show that you seem to have no empathic capacity or understand human emotions at all. Either you have some autism or some psychological disorder.

                        People go to graves to feel close to their loved ones. They bring flowers as offerings of love and respect. To show that they believe their loved ones are still with them. They WANT their loved ones to be still with them. They are not afraid of them or trying to keep them propitiated and dead. They await the day they will be reunited with their loved ones in heaven and the resurrection.


                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                          So when a man gives the woman he loves flowers, it is a sign that he is afraid of her?
                          Sometimes!


                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                            In part but why flowers? What do flowers symbolise? Even Neanderthal burials have shown evidence of flowers being strewn with the corpse. And why are some ancient burials often found in the foetal position?

                            We need to remember that many ancient societies held the belief that the dead resented the living and did not really want to be dead. Hence they had to be propitiated otherwise they could cause trouble.
                            Other societies believed that the dead could take their possessions with them to the afterlife. They were either buried or near the grave so the deceased could take them. As for flowers, those could easily have been a practical matter. The fragrant flowers can mask the odor of decay. Even the infamous Plague Doctors used them in their masks as a means of combatting the terrible smells they dealt with.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post

                              So when a man gives the woman he loves flowers, it is a sign that he is afraid of her?
                              Again, why flowers?

                              However, in your example his partner is not dead - at least one trusts not.
                              "It ain't necessarily so
                              The things that you're liable
                              To read in the Bible
                              It ain't necessarily so
                              ."

                              Sportin' Life
                              Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                                In part but why flowers? What do flowers symbolise? Even Neanderthal burials have shown evidence of flowers being strewn with the corpse. And why are some ancient burials often found in the foetal position?

                                We need to remember that many ancient societies held the belief that the dead resented the living and did not really want to be dead. Hence they had to be propitiated otherwise they could cause trouble.
                                Many societies believed all sorts of things but last I checked we don't possess a collective memory that gets passed on.

                                As for why flowers? I could easily provide a half dozen credible potential explanations but they would be largely speculative.

                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                                Comment

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