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The psychology of belief systems

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  • #16
    Reply:

    Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
    No! Truth is truth and is not subject to the vagaries of individual taste. I am orthodox because I want to stick with the revealed truth, not get carried away with every shift in thinking.
    I stand for the exact opposite of all of that.



    --------------------------------


    Originally posted by JimL View Post
    James, you seem to be trying to distinguish yourself from the group, without actually distinguishing yourself from the group. You believe the same stuff.
    It is a paradox.


    -------------------------------

    Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
    Why do people believe what they do when there is so much diversity and conflict between different belief systems with everyone devoted to justifying their own belief system with some at the expense of denying all others?
    Because we each person counts as an individual and not as a devalued-nonentity trapped inside of some group or belief system where we do not count as an individual with our own personal identity.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by James Cusick View Post
      I stand for the exact opposite of all of that.
      Ephesians 4:14 . . . so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.
      Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
        Ephesians 4:14 . . . so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.
        Amen to this.

        Cheers.

        Comment


        • #19
          It's because they old a strong personalized opinion towards that belief system. As others mentioned, a conditioned belief as a child. A child has no belief system. Barely a sense of "I" in the world, if any. What I mean by "I" is not the consciousness which resides within a person. But the "I" of all the conditioned systems programmed into a person. Sometimes programs completely die out from stagnation, or they consistently update.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by shunyadragon View Post
            A common mantra I hear among the believers is; 'I have found . . .'
            Why does anyone believe anything ? Every act of deciding to believe, excludes alternative objects of belief.

            I have no experience of the entity known as Australia. For all I know, it may be entirely fictional; a delusion, a myth, a misunderstanding, an allegory, a tale, or a tall story. There are considerations that favour the hypothesis that it is fictional. The alleged testimony of others may be susceptible to mistake, so it cannot be trusted. The senses and their extensions prove nothing, because the senses cannot be trusted. As for reason, one man’s reasonings and conclusions can always be overturned by someone else’s. So reason cannot give certainty. All one is left with, is scepticism, about everything. There may be some degrees of plausibility for the real existence of an Australia, and convergent evidences of its real existence - but these can never amount to irrefutable and coercive proof of its reality. In practice, one can live as though Australia really and irrefutably existed - but to assert as beyond doubt that it does, is to exceed the limits of what can be proven to be true.

            Everyone is a “believer” - the belief that triangles have three angles, takes a great deal for granted; if Herakleitos is to be believed, it is a pure assumption, a received prejudice, that triangles have three angles. There is no means of showing that this quaint belief is anything but a convention, a useful social mythos. Obviously, this assertion, like all assertions intended to counter or discuss it, is incapable of being proven true. Belief is all we ever have to go on, regardless of what our minds encounter. I believe I am writing English words, in prose divided into sentences by punctuation - “I” believe this, but cannot possibly prove it.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Rushing Jaws View Post
              Why does anyone believe anything ? Every act of deciding to believe, excludes alternative objects of belief.

              I have no experience of the entity known as Australia. For all I know, it may be entirely fictional; a delusion, a myth, a misunderstanding, an allegory, a tale, or a tall story. There are considerations that favour the hypothesis that it is fictional. The alleged testimony of others may be susceptible to mistake, so it cannot be trusted. The senses and their extensions prove nothing, because the senses cannot be trusted. As for reason, one man’s reasonings and conclusions can always be overturned by someone else’s. So reason cannot give certainty. All one is left with, is scepticism, about everything. There may be some degrees of plausibility for the real existence of an Australia, and convergent evidences of its real existence - but these can never amount to irrefutable and coercive proof of its reality. In practice, one can live as though Australia really and irrefutably existed - but to assert as beyond doubt that it does, is to exceed the limits of what can be proven to be true.
              This reflects a Vedic (Hindu view of reality, and actually does not respond to my post. Have you converted. My personal view is so what?!?!?!? Everything may be an illusion, but it remains a very powerful, painful, joyful fantastic reality.

              For all purposes of our discussion Australia exists, and I have been there and looked at your interesting rocks.

              Everyone is a “believer” - the belief that triangles have three angles, takes a great deal for granted; if Herakleitos is to be believed, it is a pure assumption, a received prejudice, that triangles have three angles. There is no means of showing that this quaint belief is anything but a convention, a useful social mythos. Obviously, this assertion, like all assertions intended to counter or discuss it, is incapable of being proven true. Belief is all we ever have to go on, regardless of what our minds encounter. I believe I am writing English words, in prose divided into sentences by punctuation - “I” believe this, but cannot possibly prove it.
              [/QUOTE]

              Again stated the obvious of physical examples everyone will agree, as the sky is Carolina blue on a clear day at noon on the 4th of July. does not respond to my post. This vague ambiguous view of 'belief' and reality you propose, if true negates the validity of any singly religion or belief system being true, and when people profess their new found faith and become a believer in any one particular religion and declare 'found it,' when in every diverse conflicting belief systems claim the same thing, they have found nothing, 'shunya' as in 'shunyadragon.'

              Personally from the fallible human perspective 'I have found nothing.'
              Last edited by shunyadragon; 01-18-2021, 10:57 PM.
              Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
              Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
              But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

              go with the flow the river knows . . .

              Frank

              I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Rushing Jaws View Post
                Why does anyone believe anything ? Every act of deciding to believe, excludes alternative objects of belief.

                I have no experience of the entity known as Australia. For all I know, it may be entirely fictional; a delusion, a myth, a misunderstanding, an allegory, a tale, or a tall story. There are considerations that favour the hypothesis that it is fictional. The alleged testimony of others may be susceptible to mistake, so it cannot be trusted. The senses and their extensions prove nothing, because the senses cannot be trusted. As for reason, one man’s reasonings and conclusions can always be overturned by someone else’s. So reason cannot give certainty. All one is left with, is scepticism, about everything. There may be some degrees of plausibility for the real existence of an Australia, and convergent evidences of its real existence - but these can never amount to irrefutable and coercive proof of its reality. In practice, one can live as though Australia really and irrefutably existed - but to assert as beyond doubt that it does, is to exceed the limits of what can be proven to be true.

                Everyone is a “believer” - the belief that triangles have three angles, takes a great deal for granted; if Herakleitos is to be believed, it is a pure assumption, a received prejudice, that triangles have three angles. There is no means of showing that this quaint belief is anything but a convention, a useful social mythos. Obviously, this assertion, like all assertions intended to counter or discuss it, is incapable of being proven true. Belief is all we ever have to go on, regardless of what our minds encounter. I believe I am writing English words, in prose divided into sentences by punctuation - “I” believe this, but cannot possibly prove it.
                Beautiful post. I agree completely!

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Carrikature View Post

                  Let's go with the obvious: not all animals are pack animals. Look at tigers and bears, for example.
                  Nonetheless humans are pack and in anthropomorphic human terms we are tribal animals, and the emotional and psychological sense of community and sense of identity are major driving forces for belief in one faith or another, and not an unbiased search of possible choices. The strong attachment to a sense of community leads to irrational and illogical choices like the rejection of science, as in evolution, a universe, earth and life billions of years old, global warming, and the reality of the Covid-19 pandemic.
                  Glendower: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
                  Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
                  But will they come when you do call for them? Shakespeare’s Henry IV, Part 1, Act III:

                  go with the flow the river knows . . .

                  Frank

                  I do not know, therefore everything is in pencil.

                  Comment

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