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salt to "soak up" phytic acid

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  • salt to "soak up" phytic acid

    Phytic acid is in cereals, grains, bran, nuts and seeds. A drawback is that the acid chelates minerals such as magnesium and phosphorous, possibly leaving consumers undernourished.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytic_acid
    One way to lessen the amount of phytic acid is to soak nuts or seeds in water for hours. I soak walnuts for 24 hours, changing the water midway, once. However, simply adding a certain kind of salt to your meals that contain significant amounts of phytic acid may help, as long as you keep the salt dose to less than 2.3 grams. The kind of salt is not what is called "table salt." Rather, "sea salt" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sea_salt or
    Himalayan salt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Himalayan_salt#Uses
    (how that upper limit was determined: The Journal of the American Medication Association Internal Medicine published a study that found modest amounts of salt in your diet aren't harmful. It seems possible to me that you can safely go up to 3 grams.)
    Disclaimer. I know of no study that examines the salt-acid interaction in the human body.
    The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

    [T]he truth Im after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

  • #2
    I'm pretty sure that sea salt isn't the only good source of magnesium and phosphorus. I'm also pretty sure that phytic acid isn't present in nuts and grains in large quantities. Further, salt does not "soak up" phytic acid. You just need to make sure that if you eat a lot of nuts and grains that you also have a sufficient source of magnesium and phosphorus.

    Full disclosure: I tend to use sea salt, because IMO the trace minerals enhance the flavor a bit. There's nothing wrong with using table salt, or salt in general, as long as you have a source of potassium commensurate with your salt intake.
    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
    sigpic
    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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    • #3
      Utter woo.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
        I'm pretty sure that sea salt isn't the only good source of magnesium and phosphorus. I'm also pretty sure that phytic acid isn't present in nuts and grains in large quantities. Further, salt does not "soak up" phytic acid. You just need to make sure that if you eat a lot of nuts and grains that you also have a sufficient source of magnesium and phosphorus.

        Full disclosure: I tend to use sea salt, because IMO the trace minerals enhance the flavor a bit. There's nothing wrong with using table salt, or salt in general, as long as you have a source of potassium commensurate with your salt intake.
        As far as I know, light grey celtic salt is best for the purposes of lessening the amount of phytic acid in the food. Based on an intake of 2.3 grams of that salt, 11 mg of magnesium is available, according to the "Nutritional Facts" table printed on my bag of that salt. Let's compare the molar mass of magnesium (I think Mg2) to the molar mass 660 g/mol of phytic acid. So, maybe 24 g/mol Mg2 for 660 g/mol or 1 g/mol for 27.5 g/mol phytic acid. But actually maybe one Mg atom per phytic acid molecule. Anyway. As for phosphorous, unfortunately, I need to google some more for the amount in the salt.

        Meanwhile, could you please do some research and get the numeric value for the amount (mass) of phytic acid in a "handful" of walnuts and also give a link to your authority for that number?

        Maybe my idea is indeed utter woo, but unfortunately pancreasman did not explain why he thinks so. Maybe he is a
        The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

        [T]he truth Im after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

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        • #5
          I am going to look for confirmation that phytic acid can form a salt with magnesium, so unless you are up on chemistry, you may want to skip this thread for a while.
          The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

          [T]he truth Im after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
            As far as I know, light grey celtic salt is best for the purposes of lessening the amount of phytic acid in the food. Based on an intake of 2.3 grams of that salt, 11 mg of magnesium is available, according to the "Nutritional Facts" table printed on my bag of that salt. Let's compare the molar mass of magnesium (I think Mg2) to the molar mass 660 g/mol of phytic acid. So, maybe 24 g/mol Mg2 for 660 g/mol or 1 g/mol for 27.5 g/mol phytic acid. But actually maybe one Mg atom per phytic acid molecule. Anyway. As for phosphorous, unfortunately, I need to google some more for the amount in the salt.

            Meanwhile, could you please do some research and get the numeric value for the amount (mass) of phytic acid in a "handful" of walnuts and also give a link to your authority for that number?

            Maybe my idea is indeed utter woo, but unfortunately pancreasman did not explain why he thinks so. Maybe he is a
            Or conversely, maybe you are. You have no intention of listening to anything respected science has because it's all some giant government conspiracy, and yet you gullibly buy into every bit of alternative woo you can find. You dismiss any contrary evidence and therefore going into detail about acid chemistry and salts is simply pointless.

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            • #7
              The wikipedia entry on "antinutrient"
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinutrient
              says, "Phytic acid has a strong binding affinity to minerals such as calcium, magnesium, iron, copper, and zinc." Sorry I forgot that.
              The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

              [T]he truth Im after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by pancreasman View Post
                Or conversely, maybe you are. You have no intention of listening to anything respected science has because it's all some giant government conspiracy, and yet you gullibly buy into every bit of alternative woo you can find. You dismiss any contrary evidence and therefore going into detail about acid chemistry and salts is simply pointless.
                You're welcome to just lurk.
                The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

                [T]he truth Im after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
                  I am going to look for confirmation that phytic acid can form a salt with magnesium, so unless you are up on chemistry, you may want to skip this thread for a while.
                  As your comment here shows, the only chemistry you know is what you find by googling. Phytic acid, being an organic compound, does not form a "salt" with anything.

                  Phytic acid is interesting stuff, though.

                  Anti-oxidant, anti-cancer properties? I'll take some of that. It also chelates heavy metals, which is a plus.

                  Perhaps the takeaway is that you shouldn't look to grains and nuts for your trace mineral intake, so perhaps you should avoid eating them with sources of minerals. Man has, after all, managed to survive for millennia (if you're YEC) or millions of years (if you're OEC/evolutionist) whilst eating grains. Perhaps your concerns are a tad over-blown.
                  Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

                  Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                  sigpic
                  I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                    Man has, after all, managed to survive . . . millions of years (if you're OEC/evolutionist) whilst eating grains.
                    Really? Your authority, please.

                    Fine, without your help I will continue to look for data. Maybe several days.
                    The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

                    [T]he truth Im after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I have personally eaten lots of raw nuts for many years, never experienced any side effects. Will continue to not worry about it.
                      Micah 6:8 He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to do justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
                        Really? Your authority, please.

                        Fine, without your help I will continue to look for data. Maybe several days.
                        Do you see people around you? The "Cradle of Civilization" has been farmed for (at least) thousands of years. Wheat gave the area a major leg up (IIRC that information comes from Guns, Germs, and Steel).

                        Sometimes, it really is that obvious.
                        Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

                        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                        sigpic
                        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                          As your comment here shows, the only chemistry you know is what you find by googling. Phytic acid, being an organic compound, does not form a "salt" with anything.
                          Seriously? I don't see how you have any high ground to condemn Truthseeker's ignorance and research methods.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
                            I am going to look for confirmation that phytic acid can form a salt with magnesium, so unless you are up on chemistry, you may want to skip this thread for a while.
                            (Behind a paywall)
                            Source: 10.1007/BF03179796


                            Phytic acid (phytate), myoinositol 1,2,3,4,S,6-hexakis (dihydrogen phosphate), is often present in legume seeds(10). It is a chelating agent for cations and a form of cations as well as for phosphorus storage in many seeds (16). Phytic acid and its salts represent the majority of the phosphorus in plant legume seeds and monogastric species have a limited ability to hydrolyse phytates and release phosphate for absorption. The antinutritional effects of phytatc primarily relate to the strong chelating ability associated with its six reactive phosphate groups. Multivalent cations such as Ca2+, Mg2+, Fe2+ and 2n2+ are particularly susceptible and form insoluble, indigestible complexes (19, 32, 36, 105, 128). Phytate rapidly accumulates in seeds during the ripening period (1, 3, 4, 5, 69) accompanied by other storage substances such as starch and lipids. The accumulation site of phytic acid in dicotyledonous seeds (castor, peanuts, cotton seeds, beans, etc.) is in the globoids (which is one of the inclusions of the protein body) (41, 58, 116). The proportion of phytic acid reaches up to 60-80% of the dry weight of globoid in dicotyledons (54, 119)...

                            There have been many reports of the presence of a phytase in legumes. The effects of time, temperature, pH, soaking, and heating on the autolysis of phytate in California small white beans were evaluated by CHANG et al. (21). At 50C, the hydrolysis of phytate from the beans was 31.0% and it reached a maximum of 49% at 60C. These results suggest an initiation of enzyme activity at about 60C and inactivation of the enzyme at 70 "C. They also reported that after 10 h of incubation of beans at 60C, only a negligible amount of phytic acid was found in the beans, approximately 75% of the total phytic acid being hydrolysed and 25% being diffused into the water in which the beans were incubated. The autolysis of phytate in beans was slow at both 35 and 55C.

                            TABEKHIA and LUHL (115) demonstrated a phytate decrease of 7.7,8.1, 13.2, and 19.1%, respectively, for black-eyed beans, red kidney beans, mung beans, and pink beans on soaking these beans for 12 h at 24 C in tap water. IYER et al. (43) found that when pinto, Great Northern, and red kidney beans were soaked in distilled water for 18 h at room temperature, the phytate content of beans was appreciably reduced (52.7, 69.6, and 51.7%, respectively). However, they noticed somewhat less phytate hydrolysis when the beans were soaked in a mixed salt solution (2.5% sodium chloride plus 1.5% sodium bicarbonate plus 0.5% sodium carbonate plus 1.0% sodium tripolyphosphate) at pH 7.0 and a room temperature of 22C.

                            © Copyright Original Source


                            If you need more help feel free to ask for it.

                            Edit: An author of Dietary roles of phytate and phytase in human nutrition: A review has made his article publicly available. There's no need to sign up, just click 'View' and then 'Download'. In general if you're looking for scholarly articles that are not behind paywall you should use Google Scholar with 'filetype:pdf' appended to the end of your search. The usual caution with sources should still apply.
                            Last edited by Paprika; 02-14-2015, 09:18 AM.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Paprika View Post
                              Seriously? I don't see how you have any high ground to condemn Truthseeker's ignorance and research methods.
                              My apologies. I stand by my condemnation of his research methods, however.
                              Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

                              Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                              sigpic
                              I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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