Originally posted by Juvenal
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Here's where we talk about the latest fad diets, the advantages of vegetarianism, the joy of exercise and good health. Like everywhere else at Tweb our decorum rules apply.
This is a place to exchange ideas and network with other health conscience folks, this isn't a forum for heated debate.
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Prior COVID Infection Is As Effective At Preventing Reinfection As Vaccination
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That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
We're talking available bed spaces, not the individual risk of infection. You simply can't blame the surge in full hospitals on the unvaccinated when the raw numbers are basically 50/50. If not a single unvaccinated person went there, the hospital would STILL be 50% full.
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Originally posted by Sparko View Post
But if more people were not vaccinated the beds would have been 100% full and people waiting for beds. The percentage of vaccinated people in hospital is small compared to vaccinated people NOT in hospital. Most of the vaccinated people in Israel who are in the hospital are those who are severely at risk of COVID in the first place, like the elderly and nursing home patients.That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostWhen there are a sufficient number of vaccinated hospital patients, like there are now, you have the same issue. The vaccine isn't eliminating hospitalizations.
If you don't need the extra protection that recovery adds to vaccination, then I don't need the extra protection that vaccination provides to recovery.
...because every forum needs a Jimbo
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
Getting the booster is your choice. How would you feel if your business forced you to expose yourself to the virus and then mandated you quarantine for 2 weeks to protect others around you just so you could have the "best" protection? Is that risk worth it to you just for "better" levels of protection (whatever that even means)?
Well, taking an unnecessary vaccine isn't worth the risk of the side effects for me. My odds of dying from COVID are miniscule right now. Why should I add additional odds of severe side effects from the vaccine?
Stop listening to me, and instead bring your concerns and issues to your personal physician.
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostYou have no way of knowing that.
Beds weren't over-full last year before the vaccine ever came about, were they?
...because every forum needs a Jimbo
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Originally posted by JimboJSR View Post
I know they aren't.
That's why vaccinating yourself (and thus reducing risk of you being infected and transmitting to multiple others, and them to yet more people, and so on exponentially) is good for you and for others around you, including vaccinated folk (but more so for those who can't be vaccinated or haven't had a good response to vaccination - like some of my rheumatology patients who are on immunosuppressants).
However, they do enormously reduce hospitalisations and deaths.
Sorry, I can't figure out what you're saying here.
Last edited by Bill the Cat; 10-20-2021, 03:23 PM.That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
Comment
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Originally posted by Juvenal View Post
That would represent an unacceptable risk/benefit ratio and would not be promoted as public health policy.
As I've mentioned a few times now, it's only an unnecessary vaccination until it's not. Based on the evidence I've seen, which includes all the statistics presented in this thread, a sober risk/benefit analysis suggest your likely benefits from vaccination far outweigh your risks.
If you have evidence to the contrary, I will look at it, but I won't be making any further public responses. At this point, I don't see any benefit in repeating my wish for you to be better protected, and considerable risk that your choice will be conditioned by opposition to my suggestions, so I'm going to sign off on this discussion with the most common sense advice remaining.
Stop listening to me, and instead bring your concerns and issues to your personal physician.That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
Comment
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Originally posted by JimboJSR View PostWe do. We have the experience of Wuhan, Lombardy, NYC, London, Cairo and tonnes of other places in the first wave. We also have maths that shows how the numbers would have gone had we not intervened to stop the spread of the virus by locking down.
Yes, they were. Please remember you're speaking to someone who worked in a hospital where we had to stop EVERYTHING else to accommodate covid patients. We managed our covid quite well, but the cost to the rest of the population to allow us to do this was significant.
That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
Comment
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostSo does recovering from it, which hundreds of millions worldwide already have.
If you, as a vaccinated person, are considered fine with a 60-72% effective rate of preventing reinfection, then I am also fine with a 70% effective rate against reinfection. I no more need a shot for "extra protection" than you need the illness for extra protection. So if you aren't willing to go the extra mile to get the best protection, why should I?
When NO one had natural immunity or a vaccine. Now, we have a substantial amount of both. And reinfection remains extremely rare.
My sister is the lead OR nurse in the largest hospital in my city, and their hospital was not full of COVID patients in any wave. Pockets of high infection areas may have temporarily, but overall, there were plenty of spaces available in most hospitals country wide....because every forum needs a Jimbo
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Originally posted by JimboJSR View Post
Millions haven't. 140K haven't just in the UK. And many of those who have recovered needed hospitalisation, CPAP, or intubation to do so, and/ or have had longer-term consequences.
I'm not arguing that previous infection doesn't give good protection against re-infection; I'm saying that vaccination is a safer path to that result, for you and others.That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
Comment
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View PostBut what about the other 99.97% under the age of 65?
I'm already recovered. My safest path is to do nothing. And that's the topic of the study.
Natural immunity is as effective as the shot
...because every forum needs a Jimbo
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Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
That's an awful lot of assumptions there, John. You have no way of knowing that. We don't live in counter-factual worlds where we can see the other "what-if's". Beds weren't over-full last year before the vaccine ever came about, were they?
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Originally posted by Sparko View Post
But if more people were not vaccinated the beds would have been 100% full and people waiting for beds. The percentage of vaccinated people in hospital is small compared to vaccinated people NOT in hospital. Most of the vaccinated people in Israel who are in the hospital are those who are severely at risk of COVID in the first place, like the elderly and nursing home patients....because every forum needs a Jimbo
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Originally posted by JimboJSR View Post
They will survive. But many of them will have needed hospitalisation, CPAP, or intubation to do so, and/ or have had longer-term consequences. Or spread it to other people, and contributed generally to the pandemic and causing danger to others.
That is exactly NOT what the study suggests.
Agreed. THIS is what the OP study indicates. But that doesn't mean your next step is to do nothing. Indeed, the Israeli data suggests that one dose of Pfizer would be the safest next route for you, and quite possibly for those around you. And whilst infection & vaccination confer similar protection against reinfection, vaccination is a heck of a lot safer (for you and those around you) than infection, for the reasons I've outlined above.That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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