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Prior COVID Infection Is As Effective At Preventing Reinfection As Vaccination

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  • Prior COVID Infection Is As Effective At Preventing Reinfection As Vaccination

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimam...h=5734ca7a589f


    KEY FACTS


    The study published by the U.K.’s Office of National Statistics (ONS) looked at more than 8,000 positive coronavirus tests across Britain between May and August, when delta was the dominant variant.

    During this time, people who had previously recovered from Covid-19 were about 71% less likely to contract it a second time, the analysis found.

    This represents about the same level of protection the study found was offered by two doses of the vaccines made by Pfizer and AstraZeneca, which have been prominently used in Europe’s inoculation drive.

    Two doses of the Pfizer vaccine reduced the risk of contracting Covid-19 by around 73% compared to 62% for AstraZeneca’s vaccine.

    The overlap in confidence intervals meant there “was no evidence” that full vaccination was any more effective in preventing Covid-19 than previous natural infection, the researchers concluded.

    The study, which has not been peer reviewed, found previous infection was similarly effective at preventing symptomatic Covid-19, but did not delve into the differences between natural infection and vaccines in preventing severe disease.
    That's what
    - She

    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
    - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
    Stephen R. Donaldson

  • #2
    What about the efficacy of previous infection and vaccination?

    Comment


    • #3
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
        What about the efficacy of previous infection and vaccination?
        Great question. The paper doesn't comment on this, but I suspect this will be one of the reviewer's comments when it gets peer-reviewed. I Can't see if they specifically excluded previously-infected patients from the vaccine groups. I might have missed that.

        The Israeli study currently available as a re-print siggested that previous infection gave better protection than vaccination, but that vaccinating previously infected patients further reduced the risk of repeat infection by about 50%.
        ...because every forum needs a Jimbo

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by JimboJSR View Post

          Great question. The paper doesn't comment on this, but I suspect this will be one of the reviewer's comments when it gets peer-reviewed. I Can't see if they specifically excluded previously-infected patients from the vaccine groups. I might have missed that.

          The Israeli study currently available as a re-print siggested that previous infection gave better protection than vaccination, but that vaccinating previously infected patients further reduced the risk of repeat infection by about 50%.
          So why not just let everyone not in a high risk category just get it, recover, THEN get vaccinated? If that's the BEST protection available?

          That's what
          - She

          Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
          - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

          I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
          Stephen R. Donaldson

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post

            So why not just let everyone not in a high risk category just get it, recover, THEN get vaccinated? If that's the BEST protection available?
            1) Infection risks hospitalisation, death and medium or long term complications. I saw several examples of this in healthy folk in their 30s in the first wave (colleagues and family). Vaccination poses a much lower risk of harm.

            2) During an infection, covid can very easily be spread to others, with exponential growth in cases & complications, including in those who are "high risk". Vaccines don't do this.
            ...because every forum needs a Jimbo

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by JimboJSR View Post

              1) Infection risks hospitalisation, death and medium or long term complications. I saw several examples of this in healthy folk in their 30s in the first wave (colleagues and family). Vaccination poses a much lower risk of harm.

              The fact remains that this virus is 99.97% recoverable for people under 65. The risk is generally minimal.

              2) During an infection, covid can very easily be spread to others, with exponential growth in cases & complications, including in those who are "high risk". Vaccines don't do this.
              False. Vaccines DO allow for the contracting and spread of the virus at the same rate as recovered patients. As seen above in the OP, it's no better than the millions who have recovered.
              That's what
              - She

              Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
              - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

              I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
              Stephen R. Donaldson

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                The fact remains that this virus is 99.97% recoverable for people under 65. The risk is generally minimal.
                This can still be a poopload of people when you have infection rates like we do in the UK currently. It also assumes that the patient has access to all the necessary hospital resources - and that's a BIG assumption when infection rates are very high, and hospitals get swamped with infected people as has been seen repeatedly during the pandemic. Remember, an overwhelmed health service means no room at the inn for Covid and non-covid patients alike, and that's seriously bad news for EVERYONE. I'm sure I've explained this several times over the last 18 months.

                False. Vaccines DO allow for the contracting and spread of the virus at the same rate as recovered patients.
                Possibly - but that's not the issue here. You didn't ask about transmission of covid from recovered vs vaccinated patients. You asked why not just let all covid-naive people contract the virus naturally, then follow that with vaccination (in effect, give a booster). The reason is that covid infection can be spread and cause harm to others. A vaccine... can't.
                ...because every forum needs a Jimbo

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by JimboJSR View Post
                  The reason is that covid infection can be spread and cause harm to others. A vaccine... can't.
                  Hmm. Maybe they should engineer a harmless but contagious virus that looks like covid to the immune system, then let it spread naturally. A contagious vaccine.


                  Comment


                  • #10
                    CRUCIAL QUOTE
                    .
                    Studies have also consistently shown that vaccination on top of previous infection offers even higher levels of immunity then either on their own. As highlighted by Sarah Croft, the head of analysis for the U.K. study, “the highest protection was found among those who had experienced a past infection followed by two vaccines.”

                    Bill, I don't think 70 percent protection is good enough when you can easily do better.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by JimboJSR View Post
                      This can still be a poopload of people when you have infection rates like we do in the UK currently. It also assumes that the patient has access to all the necessary hospital resources - and that's a BIG assumption when infection rates are very high, and hospitals get swamped with infected people as has been seen repeatedly during the pandemic. Remember, an overwhelmed health service means no room at the inn for Covid and non-covid patients alike, and that's seriously bad news for EVERYONE. I'm sure I've explained this several times over the last 18 months.
                      When there are a sufficient number of vaccinated hospital patients, like there are now, you have the same issue. The vaccine isn't eliminating hospitalizations.

                      St. Francis: Nearly half of hospitalized COVID patients are fully vaccinated (wibw.com)
                      Covid: 54% of hospital patients with virus are fully vaccinated (irishtimes.com)
                      Nearly 60% of hospitalized COVID-19 patients in Israel fully vaccinated, data shows (beckershospitalreview.com)


                      Possibly - but that's not the issue here. You didn't ask about transmission of covid from recovered vs vaccinated patients. You asked why not just let all covid-naive people contract the virus naturally, then follow that with vaccination (in effect, give a booster). The reason is that covid infection can be spread and cause harm to others. A vaccine... can't.
                      I've never suggesting that everyone just go out and get the virus. I'm saying that prior infected people are just as protected from reinfection as a vaccinated person. If you don't need the extra protection that recovery adds to vaccination, then I don't need the extra protection that vaccination provides to recovery. The risks of getting the extra vaccine are just as real to those who have suffered them as the risk of getting seriously ill from catching it.
                      That's what
                      - She

                      Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                      - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                      I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                      Stephen R. Donaldson

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Juvenal View Post

                        CRUCIAL QUOTE
                        .
                        Studies have also consistently shown that vaccination on top of previous infection offers even higher levels of immunity then either on their own. As highlighted by Sarah Croft, the head of analysis for the U.K. study, “the highest protection was found among those who had experienced a past infection followed by two vaccines.”


                        Bill, I don't think 70 percent protection is good enough when you can easily do better.
                        Neither is 72%, so you'd better get that sickness to add to your measly 72%.

                        Side note: Just got blackmailed by my CO of my agency who basically told us that only severe medical conditions would be exempt. Anyone else who doesn't get it is fired, regardless of what your doctor recommends. I am in no mood right now for anyone's crap.
                        Last edited by Bill the Cat; 10-20-2021, 03:27 PM.
                        That's what
                        - She

                        Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                        - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                        I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                        Stephen R. Donaldson

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post

                          Neither is 72%, so you'd better get that sickness to add to your measly 72%.
                          Having received my second dose in early April, I have serious doubt that my current protection is that high. What I will be doing, as soon as it's available, is getting a booster. The counter here isn't serious. To spell it out, deliberately getting a first infection in order to avoid a second infection would be highly inconvenient and would incur all the risk of infection I've gone to some trouble to avoid, putting both the marine's wife, and the marine's kid, both of whom have serious comorbidities, at unacceptable risk.

                          Is that what you want for me?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Juvenal View Post

                            Having received my second dose in early April, I have serious doubt that my current protection is that high. What I will be doing, as soon as it's available, is getting a booster. The counter here isn't serious. To spell it out, deliberately getting a first infection in order to avoid a second infection would be highly inconvenient and would incur all the risk of infection I've gone to some trouble to avoid, putting both the marine's wife, and the marine's kid, both of whom have serious comorbidities, at unacceptable risk.

                            Is that what you want for me?
                            Getting the booster is your choice. How would you feel if your business forced you to expose yourself to the virus and then mandated you quarantine for 2 weeks to protect others around you just so you could have the "best" protection? Is that risk worth it to you just for "better" levels of protection (whatever that even means)? Well, taking an unnecessary vaccine isn't worth the risk of the side effects for me. My odds of dying from COVID are miniscule right now. Why should I add additional odds of severe side effects from the vaccine?
                            That's what
                            - She

                            Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                            - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                            I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                            Stephen R. Donaldson

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              If more than half the exposed population in the first case had been vaccinated, and if more than 54 percent of the population in the second case had been vaccinated, and if more than 60 percent of the exposed population in the third case had been vaccinated, then vaccination decreased the risk of hospitalization in all three cases.

                              Comment

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