mRNA inventor, Dr Robert Malone - the Spike

[Bill the Cat]

Super, I hope Daniel gets a similar response.... in ... 18 minutes.

Unfortunately, when I was in the USAF, after 9-11, they forced us to get several vaccines dependent on the area of the world we were being deployed. Several of my fellow Airmen had to get the anthrax vaccine to go to Central America on deployment under threat of Article 15 for dereliction of duty. Being a GS offers more protections from the union than active duty.

[Juvenal]

First off - I'm seriously considering getting the vaccine, and talked to my own Doctor Monday afternoon.
I'm 'running the traps' trying to figure out which - if any - if the vaccines I get.

I had Covid in January, and sailed through it with incredibly minor symptoms.
The only way I knew I had Covid was because I went to get a test the following morning, and it was Positive.
For the next 10 days, several additional tests showed positive.

So, here's this Dr. Robert Malone - inventor of mRNA technology - who isn't in lockstep with the whole COVID messaging.

Is he a nut? Is he not actually the "inventor of mRNA technology"?

He's not a nut.

But he's not careful, either, and prone to exaggeration. Certainly, the spike protein triplet attached to the SARS-CoV-2 virus is "cytotoxic," as the Salk study shows. That is, it kills cells, but as a triplet, attached to the virus, or a pseudovirus as in the study. It is not toxic as a single, incomplete strand composed of just the 1373 bases that make up the receptor binding domain coded into the mRNA vaccines.

Here's the layman's version of the Salk study promoted by Dr. Bob in the o/p video.

THE NOVEL CORONAVIRUS’ SPIKE PROTEIN PLAYS ADDITIONAL KEY ROLE IN ILLNESS
.

In the new study, the researchers created a “pseudovirus” that was surrounded by SARS-CoV-2 classic crown of spike proteins, but did not contain any actual virus. Exposure to this pseudovirus resulted in damage to the lungs and arteries of an animal model—proving that the spike protein alone was enough to cause disease. Tissue samples showed inflammation in endothelial cells lining the pulmonary artery walls.

The "crown," above is the triplet of complete spike proteins.

No, there is no evidence the COVID-19 vaccine spike protein is ‘cytotoxic’
.

In a tweet shared thousands of times, Dr. Robert Malone, who identifies himself as the inventor of mRNA vaccines, wrote: "The SARS-CoV-2 spike protein is cytotoxic. That is a fact. Who says so? Multiple peer-reviewed references. The Salk Institute. It is the responsibility of the vaccine developers to demonstrate that their expressed version is not toxic. Show us.”

Dr. Benhur Lee, a professor of microbiology at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai, said the potential cytotoxicity of SARS-CoV-2 has no bearing on the safety of the mRNA vaccines.

“The sound bite ‘SARS-CoV-2 spike protein is toxic’ is not technically wrong—also not news at per se—but that has nothing to do with overall established safety of SARS-CoV-2 vaccines, especially the mRNA vaccines,” Lee said.

That’s in part because, according to Machamer, the spike protein in SARS-CoV-2 is different than the spike protein created after the administration of the mRNA vaccines.

“The vaccine, at least the Moderna and the Pfizer vaccines, the mRNA vaccines, they supply the information to make spike, but it’s not exactly the spike that’s in the virus,” she said.

“There are changes that were made on purpose that would prevent the spike protein from being able to undergo binding to the receptor and fusion,” Machamer explained. “And so, all this business about toxicity that has been shown for the real spike protein, the one that doesn't have that block, is totally irrelevant for the vaccine.”

Don't get me wrong, science needs these guys — and gals — stirring things up on the fringe, pointing out obscure consequences not fully researched that mostly don't pan out, but occasionally hit the mother lode.

Lynn Margulis (1938–2011)
.

In 1967, she made the revolutionary case that simple bacteria were incorporated into some early cells to produce the organelles that let plants photosynthesize and animals consume oxygen. This process of endosymbiosis altered Earth by providing plants for animals to eat and additional oxygen for them to breathe.

Her success did not come easily. She had to stand up for her ideas and accept repeated rejections. She submitted her radical paper to a dozen journals before it was published. Remarkably, she developed her theories without training in molecular biology — RNA sequencing was just being developed, and DNA sequencing was years away. Her discovery of the endosymbiotic origins of animals and plants was ahead of the field. She got there on her own terms, and her main insights have been proven correct.

But no, Dr. Bob, you're not the inventor of mRNA technology, the mRNA vaccines didn't get a carve-out on liability, and the spike protein that's coded into the mRNA vaccines is not cytotoxic. But as I said above, and I'll say it again, he's not a nut, he just blasts off before checking things. When he gets busted, he admits it.
.

The Pinocchio Test

As regular readers know, we generally do not award Pinocchios when a person admits error. Otherwise, this would be a Four-Pinocchio claim. Malone was too quick to embrace false information (while bashing the mainstream media at the same time). The liability protection for Comirnaty is the same as the vaccine that was previously approved under emergency authorization, so that is not a bar to distributing the fully-approved vaccine in the United States

That said, it's troubling that he's continuing to encourage an equivocation between the spike protein attached to the Covid virus and the mRNA vaccines. When he says in the video above, that, contrary to Reuters, the spike protein is indeed cytotoxic, it's literally true, but dangerously misleading. The clear inference of the audience he's speaking to, as he should know, is that this is an indictment of the vaccines themselves.

I have reason to believe the preacher is looking at these claims in good faith, and I can certainly see why this particular claim would be troubling for him. I am, however, deeply disturbed that those listening to Dr. Bob, not just with a healthy hesitancy, but with a predisposition to reject vaccination, will be further adamantized in their opposition, with the mathematically certain consequence of avoidable deaths.

TL/DR

Billions of doses of the mRNA vaccine have been safely administered. Y'all can come in now, the water's fine.

[NorrinRadd]

That is true. I also wish they were doing more comprehensive studies on such things as T-Cell immunity (that's the long term immunity you have after the antibodies fade). We have had the disease long enough to have results on that but I can't find anything. No simple tests are available to test for T-Cell immunity either.

There's T-Detect, but I don't know how "simple" it is, nor how reliable.

[Cow Poke]

He's not a nut.

But he's not careful, either, and prone to exaggeration. Certainly, the spike protein triplet attached to the SARS-CoV-2 virus is "cytotoxic," as the Salk study shows. That is, it kills cells, but as a triplet, attached to the virus, or a pseudovirus as in the study. It is not toxic as a single, incomplete strand composed of just the 1373 bases that make up the receptor binding domain coded into the mRNA vaccines.

Here's the layman's version of the Salk study promoted by Dr. Bob in the o/p video.

THE NOVEL CORONAVIRUS’ SPIKE PROTEIN PLAYS ADDITIONAL KEY ROLE IN ILLNESS
.

In the new study, the researchers created a “pseudovirus” that was surrounded by SARS-CoV-2 classic crown of spike proteins, but did not contain any actual virus. Exposure to this pseudovirus resulted in damage to the lungs and arteries of an animal model—proving that the spike protein alone was enough to cause disease. Tissue samples showed inflammation in endothelial cells lining the pulmonary artery walls.

The "crown," above is the triplet of complete spike proteins.

No, there is no evidence the COVID-19 vaccine spike protein is ‘cytotoxic’
.

In a tweet shared thousands of times, Dr. Robert Malone, who identifies himself as the inventor of mRNA vaccines, wrote: "The SARS-CoV-2 spike protein is cytotoxic. That is a fact. Who says so? Multiple peer-reviewed references. The Salk Institute. It is the responsibility of the vaccine developers to demonstrate that their expressed version is not toxic. Show us.”

Dr. Benhur Lee, a professor of microbiology at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai, said the potential cytotoxicity of SARS-CoV-2 has no bearing on the safety of the mRNA vaccines.

“The sound bite ‘SARS-CoV-2 spike protein is toxic’ is not technically wrong—also not news at per se—but that has nothing to do with overall established safety of SARS-CoV-2 vaccines, especially the mRNA vaccines,” Lee said.

That’s in part because, according to Machamer, the spike protein in SARS-CoV-2 is different than the spike protein created after the administration of the mRNA vaccines.

“The vaccine, at least the Moderna and the Pfizer vaccines, the mRNA vaccines, they supply the information to make spike, but it’s not exactly the spike that’s in the virus,” she said.

“There are changes that were made on purpose that would prevent the spike protein from being able to undergo binding to the receptor and fusion,” Machamer explained. “And so, all this business about toxicity that has been shown for the real spike protein, the one that doesn't have that block, is totally irrelevant for the vaccine.”

Don't get me wrong, science needs these guys — and gals — stirring things up on the fringe, pointing out obscure consequences not fully researched that mostly don't pan out, but occasionally hit the mother lode.

Lynn Margulis (1938–2011)
.

In 1967, she made the revolutionary case that simple bacteria were incorporated into some early cells to produce the organelles that let plants photosynthesize and animals consume oxygen. This process of endosymbiosis altered Earth by providing plants for animals to eat and additional oxygen for them to breathe.

Her success did not come easily. She had to stand up for her ideas and accept repeated rejections. She submitted her radical paper to a dozen journals before it was published. Remarkably, she developed her theories without training in molecular biology — RNA sequencing was just being developed, and DNA sequencing was years away. Her discovery of the endosymbiotic origins of animals and plants was ahead of the field. She got there on her own terms, and her main insights have been proven correct.

But no, Dr. Bob, you're not the inventor of mRNA technology, the mRNA vaccines didn't get a carve-out on liability, and the spike protein that's coded into the mRNA vaccines is not cytotoxic. But as I said above, and I'll say it again, he's not a nut, he just blasts off before checking things. When he gets busted, he admits it.
.

The Pinocchio Test

As regular readers know, we generally do not award Pinocchios when a person admits error. Otherwise, this would be a Four-Pinocchio claim. Malone was too quick to embrace false information (while bashing the mainstream media at the same time). The liability protection for Comirnaty is the same as the vaccine that was previously approved under emergency authorization, so that is not a bar to distributing the fully-approved vaccine in the United States

That said, it's troubling that he's continuing to encourage an equivocation between the spike protein attached to the Covid virus and the mRNA vaccines. When he says in the video above, that, contrary to Reuters, the spike protein is indeed cytotoxic, it's literally true, but dangerously misleading. The clear inference of the audience he's speaking to, as he should know, is that this is an indictment of the vaccines themselves.

I have reason to believe the preacher is looking at these claims in good faith, and I can certainly see why this particular claim would be troubling for him. I am, however, deeply disturbed that those listening to Dr. Bob, not just with a healthy hesitancy, but with a predisposition to reject vaccination, will be further adamantized in their opposition, with the mathematically certain consequence of avoidable deaths.

TL/DR

Billions of doses of the mRNA vaccine have been safely administered. Y'all can come in now, the water's fine.

Thanks, and, yes.... I'm taking what I have been offered as "the best opposition" or "other side", and exposing it to sunlight, so to speak.
I'm not just accepting these things as fact.

I did watch the whole video, but something just didn't seem right.

Again, much appreciated. And I'll read this again when I have more time.

[NorrinRadd]

What about the claims of Dr. Bossche, as here?

[Juvenal]

What about the claims of Dr. Bossche, as here?

Dr. Bossche is a nut. No one in their right mind would advocate for bringing back iron lungs.

[Bill the Cat]

Billions of doses of the mRNA vaccine have been safely administered. Y'all can come in now, the water's fine.

Millions of stalks of asparagus have been sold. I'll pass on both.

[NorrinRadd]

Dr. Bossche is a nut. No one in their right mind would advocate for bringing back iron lungs.

I had to look that up. I haven't read the articles yet, but from the preview I skimmed, he believes the old negative-pressure iron lungs are less damaging to lung tissue than modern "ventilators."

[Sparko]

I had to look that up. I haven't read the articles yet, but from the preview I skimmed, he believes the old negative-pressure iron lungs are less damaging to lung tissue than modern "ventilators."

I notice that he is a veterinarian too. So keep that in mind.

[Juvenal]

Millions of stalks of asparagus have been sold. I'll pass on both.

Politics, religion, epidemiology, whatever. What kind of sick freak passes on asparagus?!

[Cow Poke]

Politics, religion, epidemiology, whatever. What kind of sick freak passes on asparagus?!

Especially if it's coated in EVOO and grilled on the grill.

[NorrinRadd]

I notice that he is a veterinarian too. So keep that in mind.

Yes. Given that the Chicom Bug is zoonotic, that additional expertise might actually be beneficial.

He's been working in virology and vaccinology for over 25 years.

[NorrinRadd]

Politics, religion, epidemiology, whatever. What kind of sick freak passes on asparagus?!

I love asparagus fresh-picked.

But I can never think of asparagus without thinking of the urinal scene in "Wolf."

[Sparko]

Yes. Given that the Chicom Bug is zoonotic, that additional expertise might actually be beneficial.

He's been working in virology and vaccinology for over 25 years.

His expertise in human disease and treatment would be lacking. e.g. the iron lungs mentioned.

[NorrinRadd]

His expertise in human disease and treatment would be lacking. e.g. the iron lungs mentioned.

Can you -- or anyone -- give me a link to him actually recommending iron lungs, as opposed to one of his critics making the assertion and frothing about it? I'd like to see the context. So far, I haven't been able to find such a thing.