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mRNA inventor, Dr Robert Malone - the Spike

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  • mRNA inventor, Dr Robert Malone - the Spike

    First off - I'm seriously considering getting the vaccine, and talked to my own Doctor Monday afternoon.
    I'm 'running the traps' trying to figure out which - if any - if the vaccines I get.

    I had Covid in January, and sailed through it with incredibly minor symptoms.
    The only way I knew I had Covid was because I went to get a test the following morning, and it was Positive.
    For the next 10 days, several additional tests showed positive.

    So, here's this Dr. Robert Malone - inventor of mRNA technology - who isn't in lockstep with the whole COVID messaging.

    Is he a nut? Is he not actually the "inventor of mRNA technology"?

    The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

  • #2
    Source: https://www.logically.ai/factchecks/library/3aa2eefd

    It is Dr. Katalin Karikó and her collaborator Dr. Drew Weissman who are more commonly credited with laying the groundwork for mRNA vaccines.

    According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, "mRNA vaccines teach our cells how to make a protein—or even just a piece of a protein—that triggers an immune response inside our bodies." mRNA vaccines are a new sort of vaccine; the COVID-19 vaccines from Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna were the first.

    On his personal website, Twitter, and LinkedIn, Dr. Robert Malone has been promoting himself as the inventor of mRNA vaccines. This is misleading. In 1989, Malone published a paper titled "Cationic liposome-mediated RNA transfection." While this paper is an example of his important contribution to the then-emerging field, it does not make him the inventor of mRNA vaccines.

    According to Stat News, "for decades, scientists have dreamed about the seemingly endless possibilities of custom-made messenger RNA or mRNA." According to the New York Times, "For her entire career, Dr. Kariko has focused on messenger RNA, or mRNA — the genetic script that carries DNA instructions to each cell’s protein-making machinery. She was convinced mRNA could be used to instruct cells to make their own medicines, including vaccines."

    While Malone's research may have been important, scientific breakthroughs don't always boast a sole "inventor." Instead, they come about through the work of many.

    UPDATE: Malone reached out to Logically, stating that he did not invent the mRNA vaccines, but instead the "vaccine technology platform." He also presented us with copies of nine patents – none of which showed that he invented the mRNA vaccines. The judgment for the claim has not changed.

    The COVID-19 pandemic has given rise to a lot of potentially dangerous misinformation. For reliable advice on COVID-19, including symptoms, prevention, and available treatment, please refer to the World Health Organization or your national healthcare authority.

    © Copyright Original Source





    Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-vaccine-cytotoxic/fact-check-covid-19-vaccines-are-not-cytotoxic-idUSL2N2O01XP

    Fact Check-COVID-19 vaccines are not ‘cytotoxic’


    By Reuters Fact Check
    4 Min Read

    Posts are sharing the false statement that the spike protein in COVID-19 vaccines is cytotoxic, suggesting that it kills or damages cells. There is no evidence to support this.

    Examples of the posts can be seen here and here .

    The text in the posts read: “THE FDA WAS ALERTED MONTHS AGO THAT THE SPIKE PROTEIN IN THE COVID VACCINES ARE CYTOTOXIC. CYTOTOXIC: TOXIC TO CELLS. THE FDA DID NOTHING AND STILL ALLOW PEOPLE TO CONTINUE BEING INJECTED WITH A CYTOTOXIC SUBSTANCE. FACT CHECK THAT!!!”

    One post (here) links to a YouTube video (here) with the caption: “Spike protein is very dangerous, it’s cytotoxic (Robert Malone, Steve Kirsch, Bret Weinstein).”

    The 15-minute video shows three individuals discussing the COVID-19 vaccine and the spike protein is repeatedly described as “very dangerous” and “cytotoxic.”

    Reuters Fact Check previously debunked a similar claim (here) that spike proteins created in response to mRNA vaccines are harmful or toxic to the body.

    “So far, there is no scientific evidence available that suggests spike proteins created in our bodies from the COVID-19 vaccines are toxic or damaging our organs,” experts at the Meedan Digital Health Lab (meedan.com/digital-health-lab) said. (here)

    Research shows that spike proteins (here) remain stuck to the cell surface around the injection site and do not travel to other parts of the body via the bloodstream, they added. The 1% of the vaccine that does reach the bloodstream is destroyed by liver enzymes.

    Pharmacologist Sabina Vohra-Miller (www.vohramillerfoundation.ca/) produced a Twitter infographic explaining how spike proteins from the vaccine are harmless (here).


    Anna Durbin, Professor of International Health at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, told Reuters via email that the spike itself is not cytotoxic.

    “When you are vaccinated, your cells use the mRNA (or DNA from adenovirus vector) to make spike protein in your cells. Your cells “show” your immune system the spike protein and pieces of the spike protein. The spike protein does not kill those cells, it is not cytotoxic,” Durbin explained.

    The T cells, which make up a part of the immune system, then see the spike protein and remember it so that if there is exposure to the virus later, they can recognize it and kill the infected cells, Durbin said.
    VERDICT


    False. There is no evidence that COVID-19 vaccines are cytotoxic (toxic to cells).

    This article was produced by the Reuters Fact Check team. Read more about our fact-checking work  here  .    

    © Copyright Original Source

         







    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
      Source: https://www.logically.ai/factchecks/library/3aa2eefd

      It is Dr. Katalin Karikó and her collaborator Dr. Drew Weissman who are more commonly credited with laying the groundwork for mRNA vaccines.

      According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, "mRNA vaccines teach our cells how to make a protein—or even just a piece of a protein—that triggers an immune response inside our bodies." mRNA vaccines are a new sort of vaccine; the COVID-19 vaccines from Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna were the first.

      On his personal website, Twitter, and LinkedIn, Dr. Robert Malone has been promoting himself as the inventor of mRNA vaccines. This is misleading. In 1989, Malone published a paper titled "Cationic liposome-mediated RNA transfection." While this paper is an example of his important contribution to the then-emerging field, it does not make him the inventor of mRNA vaccines.

      According to Stat News, "for decades, scientists have dreamed about the seemingly endless possibilities of custom-made messenger RNA or mRNA." According to the New York Times, "For her entire career, Dr. Kariko has focused on messenger RNA, or mRNA — the genetic script that carries DNA instructions to each cell’s protein-making machinery. She was convinced mRNA could be used to instruct cells to make their own medicines, including vaccines."

      While Malone's research may have been important, scientific breakthroughs don't always boast a sole "inventor." Instead, they come about through the work of many.

      UPDATE: Malone reached out to Logically, stating that he did not invent the mRNA vaccines, but instead the "vaccine technology platform." He also presented us with copies of nine patents – none of which showed that he invented the mRNA vaccines. The judgment for the claim has not changed.

      The COVID-19 pandemic has given rise to a lot of potentially dangerous misinformation. For reliable advice on COVID-19, including symptoms, prevention, and available treatment, please refer to the World Health Organization or your national healthcare authority.

      © Copyright Original Source





      Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-vaccine-cytotoxic/fact-check-covid-19-vaccines-are-not-cytotoxic-idUSL2N2O01XP

      Fact Check-COVID-19 vaccines are not ‘cytotoxic’


      By Reuters Fact Check
      4 Min Read

      Posts are sharing the false statement that the spike protein in COVID-19 vaccines is cytotoxic, suggesting that it kills or damages cells. There is no evidence to support this.

      Examples of the posts can be seen here and here .

      The text in the posts read: “THE FDA WAS ALERTED MONTHS AGO THAT THE SPIKE PROTEIN IN THE COVID VACCINES ARE CYTOTOXIC. CYTOTOXIC: TOXIC TO CELLS. THE FDA DID NOTHING AND STILL ALLOW PEOPLE TO CONTINUE BEING INJECTED WITH A CYTOTOXIC SUBSTANCE. FACT CHECK THAT!!!”

      One post (here) links to a YouTube video (here) with the caption: “Spike protein is very dangerous, it’s cytotoxic (Robert Malone, Steve Kirsch, Bret Weinstein).”

      The 15-minute video shows three individuals discussing the COVID-19 vaccine and the spike protein is repeatedly described as “very dangerous” and “cytotoxic.”

      Reuters Fact Check previously debunked a similar claim (here) that spike proteins created in response to mRNA vaccines are harmful or toxic to the body.

      “So far, there is no scientific evidence available that suggests spike proteins created in our bodies from the COVID-19 vaccines are toxic or damaging our organs,” experts at the Meedan Digital Health Lab (meedan.com/digital-health-lab) said. (here)

      Research shows that spike proteins (here) remain stuck to the cell surface around the injection site and do not travel to other parts of the body via the bloodstream, they added. The 1% of the vaccine that does reach the bloodstream is destroyed by liver enzymes.

      Pharmacologist Sabina Vohra-Miller (www.vohramillerfoundation.ca/) produced a Twitter infographic explaining how spike proteins from the vaccine are harmless (here).


      Anna Durbin, Professor of International Health at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, told Reuters via email that the spike itself is not cytotoxic.

      “When you are vaccinated, your cells use the mRNA (or DNA from adenovirus vector) to make spike protein in your cells. Your cells “show” your immune system the spike protein and pieces of the spike protein. The spike protein does not kill those cells, it is not cytotoxic,” Durbin explained.

      The T cells, which make up a part of the immune system, then see the spike protein and remember it so that if there is exposure to the virus later, they can recognize it and kill the infected cells, Durbin said.
      VERDICT


      False. There is no evidence that COVID-19 vaccines are cytotoxic (toxic to cells).

      This article was produced by the Reuters Fact Check team. Read more about our fact-checking work  here  .    

      © Copyright Original Source

           
      Thanks.

      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

        Thanks.
        From reading various pieces of literature It does look like the muscle cells that express the spike protein on their surface might be attacked by the T-Cells (or whatever the Killer whilte blood cells are called) and so yeah your body could "kill" those cells most likely since it thinks they are infected. But that would be limited to the injection site which is intramuscular not into your blood stream, so it is localized. Also killing those cells would stop them from producing the spike protein and also stop any "genetic changes" that some anti-mRNA-vaccinnists are worried about (it doesn't actually change DNA).

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Sparko View Post

          From reading various pieces of literature It does look like the muscle cells that express the spike protein on their surface might be attacked by the T-Cells (or whatever the Killer whilte blood cells are called) and so yeah your body could "kill" those cells most likely since it thinks they are infected. But that would be limited to the injection site which is intramuscular not into your blood stream, so it is localized. Also killing those cells would stop them from producing the spike protein and also stop any "genetic changes" that some anti-mRNA-vaccinnists are worried about (it doesn't actually change DNA).
          I appreciate the information. I just wish there wasn't so much conflicting messaging from the various agencies.
          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

            I appreciate the information. I just wish there wasn't so much conflicting messaging from the various agencies.
            That is true. I also wish they were doing more comprehensive studies on such things as T-Cell immunity (that's the long term immunity you have after the antibodies fade). We have had the disease long enough to have results on that but I can't find anything. No simple tests are available to test for T-Cell immunity either.

            We keep hearing we need boosters. No, we don't need boosters. You are protected by the vaccine. No you aren't. blah blah.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Sparko View Post

              That is true. I also wish they were doing more comprehensive studies on such things as T-Cell immunity (that's the long term immunity you have after the antibodies fade). We have had the disease long enough to have results on that but I can't find anything. No simple tests are available to test for T-Cell immunity either.

              We keep hearing we need boosters. No, we don't need boosters. You are protected by the vaccine. No you aren't. blah blah.
              EGGzackly. Israel seems to be looking at this more than any other country, no?
              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

              Comment


              • #8
                I decided to do another search and I did find a study on memory T-cells after infection and vaccination:

                Article about the study: https://www.pennmedicine.org/news/ne...vid19-vaccines

                The study: https://www.cell.com/immunity/fullte...613(21)00308-3

                Highlights
                • •mRNA vaccines generate antigen-specific T cells in a coordinated immune response
                • •Vaccine-induced T cells resemble the durable memory cells primed by infection
                • •Th1 and cTfh cell responses to the first dose correlate with second-dose responses
                • •SARS-CoV-2-recovered individuals benefit from the first but not the second dose

                Summary


                SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccines have shown remarkable clinical efficacy, but questions remain about the nature and kinetics of T cell priming. We performed longitudinal antigen-specific T cell analyses on healthy SARS-CoV-2-naive and recovered individuals prior to and following mRNA prime and boost vaccination. Vaccination induced rapid antigen-specific CD4+ T cell responses in naive subjects after the first dose, whereas CD8+ T cell responses developed gradually and were variable in magnitude. Vaccine-induced Th1 and Tfh cell responses following the first dose correlated with post-boost CD8+ T cells and neutralizing antibodies, respectively. Integrated analysis revealed coordinated immune responses with distinct trajectories in SARS-CoV-2-naive and recovered individuals. Last, whereas booster vaccination improved T cell responses in SARS-CoV-2-naive subjects, the second dose had little effect in SARS-CoV-2-recovered individuals. These findings highlight the role of rapidly primed CD4+ T cells in coordinating responses to the second vaccine dose in SARS-CoV-2-naive individuals.


                English translation from the article:

                Researchers examined in detail the T-cell responses to mRNA vaccination in 36 healthy people who had no history of COVID-19, and 11 people who had previously recovered from COVID-19.

                In the group of participants who did not previously have COVID-19, they found that the first vaccine dose elicited a rapid and strong response from helper T cells called CD4 T cells—some of which help marshal an antibody response, while others stimulate the proliferation of CD8 killer T cells. The strengths of those initial CD4 T cell responses generally predicted the later strengths of antibody and killer T-cell responses. However, the killer T cells tended not to appear in large numbers until after the second vaccine dose—confirming the importance of that second dose for people with no COVID-19 history.

                By contrast, in the prior-COVID-19 group, helper and killer T cells specific for the COVID-19 coronavirus were already substantially present before the first dose. After that first dose, T cell numbers rose somewhat, but did not significantly increase after the second dose.

                “For people who haven’t had COVID-19, the first dose powerfully primes the pump, and the second dose turns on the whole engine—but having had COVID-19 is like having had that first vaccine dose already,” Wherry said. “It is important to point out, however, that a complete understanding of the relative importance of these T cell responses, compared to antibody, in protection from future infections will require larger clinical studies.”

                The results also showed that the T-cell response in the weeks after mRNA vaccination includes T-cell types normally elicited by natural infection—and in general, natural viral infection is known to be capable of inducing T-cell protection that lasts years and even decades.

                “We need to do follow-up studies to confirm the longevity of the T-cell response to vaccination, but our results here support the idea that that response can be long-lasting,” Wherry said.





                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  I decided to do another search and I did find a study on memory T-cells after infection and vaccination:

                  Article about the study: https://www.pennmedicine.org/news/ne...vid19-vaccines

                  The study: https://www.cell.com/immunity/fullte...613(21)00308-3

                  Highlights
                  • •mRNA vaccines generate antigen-specific T cells in a coordinated immune response
                  • •Vaccine-induced T cells resemble the durable memory cells primed by infection
                  • •Th1 and cTfh cell responses to the first dose correlate with second-dose responses
                  • •SARS-CoV-2-recovered individuals benefit from the first but not the second dose

                  Summary


                  SARS-CoV-2 mRNA vaccines have shown remarkable clinical efficacy, but questions remain about the nature and kinetics of T cell priming. We performed longitudinal antigen-specific T cell analyses on healthy SARS-CoV-2-naive and recovered individuals prior to and following mRNA prime and boost vaccination. Vaccination induced rapid antigen-specific CD4+ T cell responses in naive subjects after the first dose, whereas CD8+ T cell responses developed gradually and were variable in magnitude. Vaccine-induced Th1 and Tfh cell responses following the first dose correlated with post-boost CD8+ T cells and neutralizing antibodies, respectively. Integrated analysis revealed coordinated immune responses with distinct trajectories in SARS-CoV-2-naive and recovered individuals. Last, whereas booster vaccination improved T cell responses in SARS-CoV-2-naive subjects, the second dose had little effect in SARS-CoV-2-recovered individuals. These findings highlight the role of rapidly primed CD4+ T cells in coordinating responses to the second vaccine dose in SARS-CoV-2-naive individuals.


                  English translation from the article:

                  Researchers examined in detail the T-cell responses to mRNA vaccination in 36 healthy people who had no history of COVID-19, and 11 people who had previously recovered from COVID-19.

                  In the group of participants who did not previously have COVID-19, they found that the first vaccine dose elicited a rapid and strong response from helper T cells called CD4 T cells—some of which help marshal an antibody response, while others stimulate the proliferation of CD8 killer T cells. The strengths of those initial CD4 T cell responses generally predicted the later strengths of antibody and killer T-cell responses. However, the killer T cells tended not to appear in large numbers until after the second vaccine dose—confirming the importance of that second dose for people with no COVID-19 history.

                  By contrast, in the prior-COVID-19 group, helper and killer T cells specific for the COVID-19 coronavirus were already substantially present before the first dose. After that first dose, T cell numbers rose somewhat, but did not significantly increase after the second dose.

                  “For people who haven’t had COVID-19, the first dose powerfully primes the pump, and the second dose turns on the whole engine—but having had COVID-19 is like having had that first vaccine dose already,” Wherry said. “It is important to point out, however, that a complete understanding of the relative importance of these T cell responses, compared to antibody, in protection from future infections will require larger clinical studies.”

                  The results also showed that the T-cell response in the weeks after mRNA vaccination includes T-cell types normally elicited by natural infection—and in general, natural viral infection is known to be capable of inducing T-cell protection that lasts years and even decades.

                  “We need to do follow-up studies to confirm the longevity of the T-cell response to vaccination, but our results here support the idea that that response can be long-lasting,” Wherry said.



                  As an aside --- isn't it AMAZING how God designed the body with all these abilities to "heal itself"?
                  The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Multiple studies have been done to show how recovering from COVID-19 is in the upper 90s percent sufficient to ward off future exposures. The Israeli study even showed a dramatic difference between reinfections after natural immunity (NI) and breakthrough cases after the vaccine. I keep hearing that an additional shot will "boost" that response a little, but have never seen them identifying any quantifiable amount of how much better. And in fact, the only comparison study I've seen didn't show any appreciable decrease in new positive reinfections for the extra shot for those with NI versus those who simply had NI and no extra shot. I've seen some doctors on Twitter compare it to using 87 vs 89 gasoline. Some cars require the higher octane, but most all will get you there just fine.
                    That's what
                    - She

                    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                    - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                    Stephen R. Donaldson

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                      Multiple studies have been done to show how recovering from COVID-19 is in the upper 90s percent sufficient to ward off future exposures. The Israeli study even showed a dramatic difference between reinfections after natural immunity (NI) and breakthrough cases after the vaccine. I keep hearing that an additional shot will "boost" that response a little, but have never seen them identifying any quantifiable amount of how much better. And in fact, the only comparison study I've seen didn't show any appreciable decrease in new positive reinfections for the extra shot for those with NI versus those who simply had NI and no extra shot. I've seen some doctors on Twitter compare it to using 87 vs 89 gasoline. Some cars require the higher octane, but most all will get you there just fine.
                      Because I'm around nursing homes and hospitals so frequently, I have always done the immune system boosters, along with Vitamins C, D and Zinc.....
                      My Doc thinks that might be why my case of Covid was so incredibly mild.

                      I wouldn't have even gone and gotten tested if it weren't for all the hullabaloo about Covid.
                      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                        Because I'm around nursing homes and hospitals so frequently, I have always done the immune system boosters, along with Vitamins C, D and Zinc.....
                        My Doc thinks that might be why my case of Covid was so incredibly mild.

                        I wouldn't have even gone and gotten tested if it weren't for all the hullabaloo about Covid.
                        Yeah, it's a sticky wicket indeed. More studies are showing vaccine efficacy waning and breakthrough cases increasing a bit (although still pretty rare). My doctor and I had an extensive conversation about it and he recommended I not get the extra shot if I didn't want to. The bad thing is that the Government employee mandate doesn't even follow the CDC guidance of only getting one Pfizer shot after a recovery. They are demanding I take both.
                        That's what
                        - She

                        Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                        - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                        I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                        Stephen R. Donaldson

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                          Yeah, it's a sticky wicket indeed. More studies are showing vaccine efficacy waning and breakthrough cases increasing a bit (although still pretty rare). My doctor and I had an extensive conversation about it and he recommended I not get the extra shot if I didn't want to. The bad thing is that the Government employee mandate doesn't even follow the CDC guidance of only getting one Pfizer shot after a recovery. They are demanding I take both.
                          One of our church members is in the Army stationed at Fort Hood. I put together an appeal to his chaplain based on the member's own religious objection, simply stating in writing that I believed the member's religious beliefs were "sincerely held".

                          He has a meeting with his chaplain in 30 minutes to discuss, otherwise, the 17th is the deadline for him to take the vaccine "or else".

                          From what I hear, the directives are not even clear what the "or else" is. Some are saying "other than honorable" discharge, some are saying "dishonorable" because you refused an order...

                          Are you hearing anything official about what the "or else" is?
                          The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                            One of our church members is in the Army stationed at Fort Hood. I put together an appeal to his chaplain based on the member's own religious objection, simply stating in writing that I believed the member's religious beliefs were "sincerely held".

                            He has a meeting with his chaplain in 30 minutes to discuss, otherwise, the 17th is the deadline for him to take the vaccine "or else".

                            From what I hear, the directives are not even clear what the "or else" is. Some are saying "other than honorable" discharge, some are saying "dishonorable" because you refused an order...

                            Are you hearing anything official about what the "or else" is?
                            Nothing yet. The AFGE has sent a message that they are reviewing the directive and examining the legality of it, so nothing is in stone for us just yet. My email to our legal office was answered with a "We don't know yet, so hold on"...
                            That's what
                            - She

                            Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                            - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                            I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                            Stephen R. Donaldson

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post

                              Nothing yet. The AFGE has sent a message that they are reviewing the directive and examining the legality of it, so nothing is in stone for us just yet. My email to our legal office was answered with a "We don't know yet, so hold on"...
                              Super, I hope Daniel gets a similar response.... in ... 18 minutes.
                              The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

                              Comment

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