Covid question

[rogue06]

Maybe, just maybe, we've all been fed a large amount of falsehood regarding the virus. Maybe numbers are being falsified. Maybe the governments and the media thrive on keeping their populaces in a constant state of fear in order to better control them.

Maybe the science isn't as settled as we are all told it is.

You don't need a conspiracy theory when the government provides monetary incentives to diagnosis something as Covid even when it isn't. Hospitals get an extra 25% "reimbursement" if the patient is listed as having the Chicom coronavirus. And recently FEMA started passing out $700 checks to the families of those said to have died from it.

They effectively incentivized fraud.

[Stoic]

I can appreciate that. This is the only map of reality I have. Only what I see. Information I glean off the news is filtered and parsed through what I see. Only what corroborates with that which I perceive though my senses (at least with questions and doubts concerning Covid), is what I incorporate into my map. Back in August 2020, a NY Time article was published entitled "Smoking Gun...coronavirus retrieved from hospital air". In this article, a study is cited. The news media there for a while spoke of this study as the basis of their reality interpretations. I downloaded this study and read it about 15 times. It never concluded that the corona virus spread through areosols. It attempted to, and the researchers set up some extremely complicated equipment and executed rigorous protocol in their search for a corona virus. It never concluded anything though. It was a very lengthy document filled with a lot of scientific speech and symbols. Alot of I understood though, and I slowly comprehended much of what it was saying. There was one statement at the end even, that said something like " in order for this study to be conclusive and repeatable, more experimentation is necessary (that was my paraphrase)

This aligns with what I see in the world about me. Increasingly I am seeing news articles talking about the "vaccine hesitant". One was entitled " it's time to start shunning the vaccine hesitant". I am growing uncomfortable with this. If I did not hear the news, I would never have even known a pandemic existed. Yet a certain interpretation of reality, one which I do not see, is moving near me and is strongly suggesting that I need to comply with this interpretation. In effect, it is telling me not to trust what I see, which is, what I feel to be, the most reliable and trustworthy filter I have. If you don't see it, you don't see it. The news media keeps repeating to me to see it their way, but their way is diametrical to mine.
Does anyone realize, can anyone step inside my mind for a second, inside my world, and take a look around through my my eyes, through my lens and see what I am saying and see what I am seeing? I do not see a pandemic .I do not feel comfortable taking a vaccine for an invisible zeitgeist. It seems very phantom like to me, a memeplex, something powerfully viral. Where is this thing? It's certainly not here. I keep hearing that it's here. But I look around and i'm thinking "where is this thing"?

Numerous articles these days are entitled " how to talk with the vaccine hesitant"...

How to talk with the vaccine hesitant?

They need to step up their game here. I mean a whole lot! If they want to persuade the vaccine hesitant, they need to work on showing where this pandemic is exactly. That should be the very first thing they do. Now I don't know what that would look like. Maybe give out incentives to vaccine hesitant folks to fly them to areas where the pandemic is going on and them take them on field trips to hospitals where people are dying and them show them all the scientific charts that prove that what they are seeing is actually a Covid related case? (obviously that was a little satirical because it's not even remotely practical)...but you get what i'm saying right?

No, I don't really get what you are saying. I've never seen Australia, but I believe it exists. I believe it exists because it would take a massive conspiracy between the media, the government, and academics, not to mention lots of ordinary people who have traveled there or used to live there, in order to make it look like Australia exists when it really doesn't. (I have only met in person one guy who claimed to have been there. And he was a coworker who may or may not have been trustworthy.)

The existence of the pandemic is kind of like that. Think about how many people you suspect are lying about it.

If you know ANY doctors or nurses, ask them about it. Or any scientists. Or any politicians you happen to trust. Or any journalists.

[Machinist]

I don't know what it is that I suspect. I am not claiming that anyone is lying. All I am saying is that I don't see it. And that's probably the case for the vaccine hesitant population as a whole, which is what? about 60%? I don't know what the vaccination rates are but that may be a fair estimate. I can't see it getting higher though because for most people I would think, they don't see it either. And that's not just turning a blind eye either. It's looking around and just don't see this pandemic that the media keeps reporting on.

I believe Australia exists too. I've never been there, but I would probably bet money on it. I wouldn't take a vaccine for it though.

[rogue06]

I believe Australia exists too.

Lies. All lies

[Machinist]

Stoic, if you have a moment, check out the new thread in apologetics that Seer started.

[NorrinRadd]

I can appreciate that. This is the only map of reality I have. Only what I see. Information I glean off the news is filtered and parsed through what I see. Only what corroborates with that which I perceive though my senses (at least with questions and doubts concerning Covid), is what I incorporate into my map. Back in August 2020, a NY Time article was published entitled "Smoking Gun...coronavirus retrieved from hospital air". In this article, a study is cited. The news media there for a while spoke of this study as the basis of their reality interpretations. I downloaded this study and read it about 15 times. It never concluded that the corona virus spread through areosols. It attempted to, and the researchers set up some extremely complicated equipment and executed rigorous protocol in their search for a corona virus. It never concluded anything though. It was a very lengthy document filled with a lot of scientific speech and symbols. Alot of I understood though, and I slowly comprehended much of what it was saying. There was one statement at the end even, that said something like " in order for this study to be conclusive and repeatable, more experimentation is necessary (that was my paraphrase)

This aligns with what I see in the world about me. Increasingly I am seeing news articles talking about the "vaccine hesitant". One was entitled " it's time to start shunning the vaccine hesitant". I am growing uncomfortable with this. If I did not hear the news, I would never have even known a pandemic existed. Yet a certain interpretation of reality, one which I do not see, is moving near me and is strongly suggesting that I need to comply with this interpretation. In effect, it is telling me not to trust what I see, which is, what I feel to be, the most reliable and trustworthy filter I have. If you don't see it, you don't see it. The news media keeps repeating to me to see it their way, but their way is diametrical to mine.
Does anyone realize, can anyone step inside my mind for a second, inside my world, and take a look around through my my eyes, through my lens and see what I am saying and see what I am seeing? I do not see a pandemic .I do not feel comfortable taking a vaccine for an invisible zeitgeist. It seems very phantom like to me, a memeplex, something powerfully viral. Where is this thing? It's certainly not here. I keep hearing that it's here. But I look around and i'm thinking "where is this thing"?

I see evidence of many people *fearing* the pandemic. I have *heard of* friends of friends getting very sick and even dying. I see numbers reported in the regional news. But the person I've personally seen be hit hardest by a respiratory illness in the past 18 months is ME, and that was a few weeks before CoViD was officially here in the U.S.

Numerous articles these days are entitled " how to talk with the vaccine hesitant"...

How to talk with the vaccine hesitant?

I'm one of the "hesitant." The best way to "talk to me," unless you plan to be obsequiously polite, would be from a distance greater than my accurate throwing range. If you're within reach, I'll grab you and unmask you and cough in your face. (I always have a nice, dry lisinopril hack chambered up and ready to go.)

They need to step up their game here. I mean a whole lot! If they want to persuade the vaccine hesitant, they need to work on showing where this pandemic is exactly. That should be the very first thing they do. Now I don't know what that would look like. Maybe give out incentives to vaccine hesitant folks to fly them to areas where the pandemic is going on and them take them on field trips to hospitals where people are dying and them show them all the scientific charts that prove that what they are seeing is actually a Covid related case? (obviously that was a little satirical because it's not even remotely practical)...but you get what i'm saying right?

To get me to put up with the prick, they'll need to do a lot of convincing that it's safe. I live alone, so I have no one to observe me in case I have a bad reaction. Ambulance service is at least ten minutes away, and the nearest ER is at least half an hour away, since Biden's bro and his cronies <molested> the pooch and ended up getting the local hospital closed.

[Machinist]

Interesting perspective. Thank you.

[Stoic]

I don't know what it is that I suspect. I am not claiming that anyone is lying. All I am saying is that I don't see it. And that's probably the case for the vaccine hesitant population as a whole, which is what? about 60%? I don't know what the vaccination rates are but that may be a fair estimate. I can't see it getting higher though because for most people I would think, they don't see it either. And that's not just turning a blind eye either. It's looking around and just don't see this pandemic that the media keeps reporting on.

If you take seriously the idea that the pandemic may not be real, then you owe it to yourself to consider why so many people in the media and the government are adamant that it's real. If they're not lying, then what? Have they all been fooled into believing it? How many would have to be lying in order to fool the rest?

The fact that you haven't seen evidence of it with your own eyes means little if you would not be expected to see evidence of it with your own eyes. All the really sick people are in hospitals (or in their homes), not walking around on the street where you might see them. If you aren't in one of the hard hit areas, you can't even be expected to know anyone who is really sick, or hear more than the usual number of ambulance sirens.

[Machinist]

I don't know why they're so adamant. We're dealing with something here that is unprecedented.

This is also anecdotal, but I knew a lady 6 years ago who had the flu. It ended up causing a really bad lung infection and she died.

[Machinist]

Unprecedented like some clever memeplex that is taking it's course.
This guy here might have some insight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dukhSvkB1gA

[JimboJSR]

If you take seriously the idea that the pandemic may not be real, then you owe it to yourself to consider why so many people in the media and the government are adamant that it's real. If they're not lying, then what? Have they all been fooled into believing it? How many would have to be lying in order to fool the rest?

The fact that you haven't seen evidence of it with your own eyes means little if you would not be expected to see evidence of it with your own eyes. All the really sick people are in hospitals (or in their homes), not walking around on the street where you might see them. If you aren't in one of the hard hit areas, you can't even be expected to know anyone who is really sick, or hear more than the usual number of ambulance sirens.

This.

I do not see a pandemic .I do not feel comfortable taking a vaccine for an invisible zeitgeist. It seems very phantom like to me, a memeplex, something powerfully viral. Where is this thing? It's certainly not here. I keep hearing that it's here. But I look around and i'm thinking "where is this thing"?

I live in the UK, so it's not really practical, but you'd have been welcome to come round either of the two hospitals I worked in during our waves of covid. We sure weren't making it up, nor have we ever ben incentivised to on deathc ertificates - the NHS in the UK simply doesn't work that way.

Doubting Thomas did not see a risen Jesus, and didn't feel comfortable believing that He had risen - but he should have. He had the testimony of those he knew and trusted, and that should have been enough for him. In the end, Jesus appeared to Thomas and made him feel pretty dumb for not responding to the good evidence that he had been given. Similarly, just because covid hasn't made massive waves in your little cone of vision is NO reason to think it's not a worldwide problem. Even if you ignore big media outlets, it's not hard to find people in healthcare who have seen this with OUR own eyes. Like me.

[Cerebrum123]

seems no rhyme or reason to who gets hit hard and who skates by. A woman where I work is in her 60s, but very physically fit and rides her bike to work and participates in bike marathons. She got really sick with COVID and was laid up for weeks and had lingering effects after that. My brother 59, who is overweight, pre-diabetic, drinks beer and has had a triple artery bypass a couple of years ago and has other health problems, got COVID and said it felt like a cold and he was up and running around a week later.

That's one of the things that is so mindboggling to me. It's like this disease has a much larger variance in how intense it is and what happens to those infected than most other diseases.

[Machinist]

This.



I live in the UK, so it's not really practical, but you'd have been welcome to come round either of the two hospitals I worked in during our waves of covid. We sure weren't making it up, nor have we ever ben incentivised to on deathc ertificates - the NHS in the UK simply doesn't work that way.

Doubting Thomas did not see a risen Jesus, and didn't feel comfortable believing that He had risen - but he should have. He had the testimony of those he knew and trusted, and that should have been enough for him. In the end, Jesus appeared to Thomas and made him feel pretty dumb for not responding to the good evidence that he had been given. Similarly, just because covid hasn't made massive waves in your little cone of vision is NO reason to think it's not a worldwide problem. Even if you ignore big media outlets, it's not hard to find people in healthcare who have seen this with OUR own eyes. Like me.

I'm not flippantly dismissing any other perspective. What I have shared is probably representative of the entire "vaccine hesitant" population mindset. More than half the population doesn't see this pandemic. What you're dealing with is an extreme form of cognitive dissonance. Because especially in my area, not only has there been no massive waves...there hasn't even been so much as a ripple. Now how that is possible is beyond me. I know i'm not going to see it on the streets, ala bring out your dead, but I would at least hear things like "so and so died from, or is sick from the Covid virus."

I do hear that people I know have tested positive. There have even been a few who have been sick, but they recovered quickly as with the typical flu. I am only reporting what comes through my own personal filter. Beginning with what I see, I find it hard to believe that all these cases are actually covid related.

[JimboJSR]

What I have shared is probably representative of the entire "vaccine hesitant" population mindset. More than half the population doesn't see this pandemic.

Fair enough. I actually find that quite a helpful insight - thanks.

Now how that is possible is beyond me. I know i'm not going to see it on the streets, ala bring out your dead, but I would at least hear things like "so and so died from, or is sick from the Covid virus."

I suppose a mixture of lack of spread to the area, or living in a more spread-out / urban area, or just plain good luck. Here in Scotland, quite a few of the western Islands were completely zero covid for many months.

I do hear that people I know have tested positive. There have even been a few who have been sick, but they recovered quickly as with the typical flu. I am only reporting what comes through my own personal filter. Beginning with what I see, I find it hard to believe that all these cases are actually covid related.

Well, covid is mild or asymptomatic in the majority of cases; only a small proportion need hospital care. The problem is when you get an outbreak, more likely in a built-up area (cf. London, Lombardy, NYC - and Dehli right now), case growth becomes exponential, and then *everyone* is screwed. If transmission is kept low, but not zero, you have a much better chance of avoiding the catastrophic scenes you see on TV.

[One Bad Pig]

seems no rhyme or reason to who gets hit hard and who skates by. A woman where I work is in her 60s, but very physically fit and rides her bike to work and participates in bike marathons. She got really sick with COVID and was laid up for weeks and had lingering effects after that. My brother 59, who is overweight, pre-diabetic, drinks beer and has had a triple artery bypass a couple of years ago and has other health problems, got COVID and said it felt like a cold and he was up and running around a week later.

It's obviously the beer wot saved 'im.