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Autism Discussion

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post

    The change of names in diagnoses is common. I have Complex Regional Pain Syndrome, but when I was first diagnosed it was called Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy, and before that Causalgia. Asperger's is technically no longer a separate diagnosis from Autism Spectrum Disorder, which at one point was called childhood Schizophrenia IIRC. With PTSD it has been known as Shellshock, as you mention, as well as Battle Fatigue, among other names. I think one of the reasons it is so highly associated with military conflict is because that is where some of the most severe cases come from. Just like Asperger's or what would now be deemed Autism Spectrum Disorder level 1. Or in other words mild levels of support needs. Only the more extreme cases were noticed, and anything less than that was just deemed "weird", or "difficult".

    Men not wanting to deal with emotions as much is definitely partly due to society. One of my uncles was the type to drill the point home that guys are not supposed to cry. Bottling up your emotions isn't a good way to deal with them. I still have a hard time with not bottling them up, but I know the kinds of problems it can cause. In my case it just leads to a meltdown or ends up more like a volcanic eruption of emotion all at once.

    Sadly people who will exploit everything, including medical diagnoses, are out there and will do anything they can to get what they want. I don't really know of a solution to that.

    I'm glad to be getting a real chance to talk about it more in depth. I've been researching the topic rather intensely* for the last 4 to 5 months. Only more recently have I felt more comfortable that I am properly understanding things.

    *My family would say obsessively, and they are technically right. They don't even know half of the amount I've been researching it.
    So - the research. What are you hoping to accomplish by that? Simply to understand it better? To help others? To answer quesitons?
    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

      So - the research. What are you hoping to accomplish by that? Simply to understand it better? To help others? To answer quesitons?
      Primarily to understand it better, and to be more certain of a suspicion I have. Hopefully I can do a bit of all of the above.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post

        Primarily to understand it better, and to be more certain of a suspicion I have. Hopefully I can do a bit of all of the above.
        Well, it's been good talking through this with you - I've learned some things, and have already adjusted some things.
        "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
          The change of names in diagnoses is common. I have Complex Regional Pain Syndrome, but when I was first diagnosed it was called Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy, and before that Causalgia. Asperger's is technically no longer a separate diagnosis from Autism Spectrum Disorder, which at one point was called childhood Schizophrenia IIRC. With PTSD it has been known as Shellshock, as you mention, as well as Battle Fatigue, among other names. I think one of the reasons it is so highly associated with military conflict is because that is where some of the most severe cases come from. Just like Asperger's or what would now be deemed Autism Spectrum Disorder level 1. Or in other words mild levels of support needs. Only the more extreme cases were noticed, and anything less than that was just deemed "weird", or "difficult"....
          I keep coming back to this... yeah, the "labels" change. And this is helping me understand my own older brother's life (and death).

          I've shared before (I think) that even though I was 2 1/2 years younger, I was supposed to keep an eye on John when we went places, because he might have a seizure or something, and the scary thing in my mind was how the doctor said he might swallow his tongue or choke to death or something.

          I'd try to cover for him when he "weirded out" - just kinda get "spacey", not violent. Other times, he'd just stand up and start walking toward the end of the pier where we were fishing, and it would take all my strength to stop him and keep him out of trouble. In the old days, epilepsy was thought to be demonic or insanity or who knows what. Back in our childhood, it was "who knows what". It just was.

          I developed a knack for 'handling him', for knowing what to do or say to calm him down, because often his seizures would scare him. To be perfectly honest, it often crossed my mind that he was faking it for attention.

          A while back I had to fly to Atlanta where he was living, because they had him locked up in the County LoonyBin. His doctor had changed his medication, and John found himself standing on a corner in downtown Atlanta trying to figure out where he was, who he was, where he was going. A local police officer stopped to check him out, and John mumbled something about "I hate my doctor - I could kill him for messing up my meds", and the police officer arrested him for making terroristic threats and had him committed to the county lockup.

          Long story, but every once in a while he would be having a 'good day' - no seizures, no anger (he was prone to outbursts of anger), no confusion, and he would click his tongue and smile and say "it's an OK day". There was a way that he said it, that even then, I understood was more than 'just ok' - but was a day of actual peace and tranquility.

          I think about that often when I'm dealing with people at our faith-based help center --- what they really really need is "an OK day".

          "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

            I keep coming back to this... yeah, the "labels" change. And this is helping me understand my own older brother's life (and death).

            I've shared before (I think) that even though I was 2 1/2 years younger, I was supposed to keep an eye on John when we went places, because he might have a seizure or something, and the scary thing in my mind was how the doctor said he might swallow his tongue or choke to death or something.

            I'd try to cover for him when he "weirded out" - just kinda get "spacey", not violent. Other times, he'd just stand up and start walking toward the end of the pier where we were fishing, and it would take all my strength to stop him and keep him out of trouble. In the old days, epilepsy was thought to be demonic or insanity or who knows what. Back in our childhood, it was "who knows what". It just was.

            I developed a knack for 'handling him', for knowing what to do or say to calm him down, because often his seizures would scare him. To be perfectly honest, it often crossed my mind that he was faking it for attention.

            A while back I had to fly to Atlanta where he was living, because they had him locked up in the County LoonyBin. His doctor had changed his medication, and John found himself standing on a corner in downtown Atlanta trying to figure out where he was, who he was, where he was going. A local police officer stopped to check him out, and John mumbled something about "I hate my doctor - I could kill him for messing up my meds", and the police officer arrested him for making terroristic threats and had him committed to the county lockup.

            Long story, but every once in a while he would be having a 'good day' - no seizures, no anger (he was prone to outbursts of anger), no confusion, and he would click his tongue and smile and say "it's an OK day". There was a way that he said it, that even then, I understood was more than 'just ok' - but was a day of actual peace and tranquility.

            I think about that often when I'm dealing with people at our faith-based help center --- what they really really need is "an OK day".
            I don't know much about epilepsy as a condition of its own. I do know it can be comorbid with autism, and that seizures are one of the major symptoms.

            Judging by what you've said here he may have had more going on than just epilepsy, but it is possible that is what he had and the medicines were just messed up. Seems they overreacted to what he said. I kind of understand why, but in my experience saying something like "I could kill X for Y" is pretty common, and isn't taken as a "terroristic threat".

            But yeah, many people just need to have "an ok day". The problem is that many people instead get a "really bad day" and just get stuck in a series of them.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
              I don't know much about epilepsy as a condition of its own. I do know it can be comorbid with autism, and that seizures are one of the major symptoms.
              Yeah, so much we didn't know back then.

              Judging by what you've said here he may have had more going on than just epilepsy, but it is possible that is what he had and the medicines were just messed up. Seems they overreacted to what he said. I kind of understand why, but in my experience saying something like "I could kill X for Y" is pretty common, and isn't taken as a "terroristic threat".
              I think it was a matter of poor policing, to tell the truth. The officer "had a problem" and rather than try to work the problem, he gave "his problem" to the County Hospital. But, then again, even the concept of dealing with "Emotionally Disturbed Persons" was new, and I'm trying to remember where this fell chronologically with the national "free people from mental hospitals" debacle.

              But yeah, many people just need to have "an ok day". The problem is that many people instead get a "really bad day" and just get stuck in a series of them.
              Yessir, that's what made me take note of when John declared it was "an OK day" -- because he had so many that were not.

              Besides his 'condition', he was also quite rebellious (not surprising, since mom and dad were told by the doctors to "treat him differently than the other kids" (there were 9 of us).

              I often say, "My oldest brother went to the Navy, my next oldest to the Marines, and John went to experience the 60's in its fullest".

              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                Yeah, so much we didn't know back then.



                I think it was a matter of poor policing, to tell the truth. The officer "had a problem" and rather than try to work the problem, he gave "his problem" to the County Hospital. But, then again, even the concept of dealing with "Emotionally Disturbed Persons" was new, and I'm trying to remember where this fell chronologically with the national "free people from mental hospitals" debacle.



                Yessir, that's what made me take note of when John declared it was "an OK day" -- because he had so many that were not.

                Besides his 'condition', he was also quite rebellious (not surprising, since mom and dad were told by the doctors to "treat him differently than the other kids" (there were 9 of us).

                I often say, "My oldest brother went to the Navy, my next oldest to the Marines, and John went to experience the 60's in its fullest".
                Yeah, that seems to be a rather concise and accurate description.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by Zymologist View Post
                  This is an interesting thread. I say that with respect to the general topic of autism and its possible markers, and not Hypatia, as I've not interacted with her and couldn't comment.

                  I'm on the spectrum, and was not diagnosed until adulthood. I'm currently trying to figure out whether I think there's a stigma, and I have conflicting thoughts about it. I think people generally are trying to be more and more accepting of the label, and there's been a lot of improvement there societally speaking. That said--and speaking purely for myself here--I very rarely feel listened to as someone on the spectrum. So from my perspective, there's not a stigma so much as a failure on the behavioral level. There have been people for example, acquaintances and low-level friends, that I've told my diagnosis to and it made no difference in their interaction with me, when I expected it would have. Like they "heard" me but didn't really hear me. I recently left a good chat group that I'd at one point hoped to be a meaningful member of, in fact, because I'd opened up to them about this and there was no meaningful change in their interaction with me as a result--even from one who was married to someone on the spectrum, so you'd think she'd know better, which is ironic and kind of sad. This is typical, in my experience.

                  Cerebrum is right about "autistic" being used as a quasi-insult, e.g., "autistic screeching" memes. Strangely, these actually don't bother me at all and I don't really know why. Maybe they should.

                  Just some random thoughts of mine, since the subject is close to my heart.
                  Just some random thoughts -

                  is it possible that the people you told were actually paying you a compliment by making no changes in their interactions with you? I mean that maybe they thought the relationship was fine, and learning about your condition (?) made no difference to how they valued you?

                  Secondly, maybe they didn't know how to change - what to do differently - so they kept doing what they had previously done. Sometimes people are scared of doing 'something wrong' so they stick to what they know. All with good intentions.
                  ...>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by MaxVel View Post

                    Just some random thoughts -

                    is it possible that the people you told were actually paying you a compliment by making no changes in their interactions with you? I mean that maybe they thought the relationship was fine, and learning about your condition (?) made no difference to how they valued you?

                    Secondly, maybe they didn't know how to change - what to do differently - so they kept doing what they had previously done. Sometimes people are scared of doing 'something wrong' so they stick to what they know. All with good intentions.
                    Kinda like when you see somebody in the supermarket shopping from a wheel chair --- they're looking at an item on an upper shelf, and you think..... "if I offer to help, am I unduly emphasizing the fact that they are incapable of getting the item" or just go ahead and be friendly, and risk a reprimand.

                    The vast majority of the time, I'll say something like "anything I can do?", and the vast majority of the time, it is warmly received.
                    "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

                      Kinda like when you see somebody in the supermarket shopping from a wheel chair --- they're looking at an item on an upper shelf, and you think..... "if I offer to help, am I unduly emphasizing the fact that they are incapable of getting the item" or just go ahead and be friendly, and risk a reprimand.

                      The vast majority of the time, I'll say something like "anything I can do?", and the vast majority of the time, it is warmly received.
                      It really depends on what Zymologist means by not changing the way they interact with him. I have an example unrelated to ASD. I have RSD/CRPS, and one of the big things is that even a light touch can cause pain*, especially if I don't know it is about to happen. If I had a dollar every time someone broke this rule of not touching me, well I'd have a lot more money right now. For many I know it is not a once or twice thing either, but quite often repeated to the point I no longer want to be around them for my own safety.

                      *Not everyone who has it has this symptom, nor to the degree that I do. I'm a lot better than I was, but I'm still nowhere near where I would be if I hadn't been repeatedly injured in various ways over the years.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by MaxVel View Post

                        Just some random thoughts -

                        is it possible that the people you told were actually paying you a compliment by making no changes in their interactions with you? I mean that maybe they thought the relationship was fine, and learning about your condition (?) made no difference to how they valued you?

                        Secondly, maybe they didn't know how to change - what to do differently - so they kept doing what they had previously done. Sometimes people are scared of doing 'something wrong' so they stick to what they know. All with good intentions.
                        Sorry, this is a fair question and I'm not ignoring you. We have a busy couple weeks with family at our place, and I'm also trying to figure out my own thoughts, so I do intend to respond but it may take a bit.
                        I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          There seems to be a diagnostic spectrum. One psychotherapist or psychiatrist may conclude autism while another may not. It seems very subjective.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Machinist View Post
                            There seems to be a diagnostic spectrum. One psychotherapist or psychiatrist may conclude autism while another may not. It seems very subjective.
                            This can be said for pretty much any condition that isn't something like strep throat where they can see it under a microscope, or broken bones that they can see with an X-ray.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I was thinking about this discussion when this news story broke the other day:

                              This mother was banned from Six Flags for wearing shorts that were too short. (And, yes, they were *very* short.) While the park police seemed to handle it in an unusually aggressive manner, the fact that she (and the media) were calling attention to her autism (apparently as a reason for her resisting the park police, because she says she can't handle talking to the police on her own) was what caught my attention. Was that condition relevant to this story? To what degree? I'm not sure myself.

                              https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...rt-shorts.html
                              "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                                I was thinking about this discussion when this news story broke the other day:

                                This mother was banned from Six Flags for wearing shorts that were too short. (And, yes, they were *very* short.) While the park police seemed to handle it in an unusually aggressive manner, the fact that she (and the media) were calling attention to her autism (apparently as a reason for her resisting the park police, because she says she can't handle talking to the police on her own) was what caught my attention. Was that condition relevant to this story? To what degree? I'm not sure myself.

                                https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...rt-shorts.html
                                Ugh, that web page is a mess.

                                Given the communication problems that Autism can come with I think it was reasonable for her to ask to have her boyfriend there when talking to the police. There have been cases where someone with autism who calls the police as a victim of a crime suddenly becomes a suspect because they look "off" to the police because their body language and often verbal language is different enough from the average person to arouse their suspicion. I watched a video about a person talking about their own diagnosis and they were told "if you are ever in trouble with the police call me", and they were told this because misunderstandings with police and people with autism can go south pretty fast.

                                Her shorts were short*, but not anything deserving this level of treatment. At the Six Flags near where I live it was common to see people where shorts equally short, or even shorter. Since this one also had a water park it wasn't that uncommon to see people wearing just a bikini.

                                *Out of the multiple pictures I saw the shortest ones seemed to be when she was wearing a Pikachu shirt. The site was bombarding me with videos and pictures without ad blocker, so I don't know if that is the shorts they were upset about. If it was, then I think they are being silly.

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