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It is time to purge the Church of its heretics.

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  • #16
    Or... don't start a family when you're in the middle of a famine?
    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

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    • #17
      What were the matters that the Corinthians wrote about?

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Jedidiah View Post
        You might try actually reading all that Paul said on the matter rather than cherry picking.
        Yep. It always comes down to context:

        Source: THE NIV Application Commentary, 1 Corinthians by Craig L. Blomberg

        FEW PASSAGES OF Scripture have been more abused and ripped from their historical moorings than 1 Corinthians 7. Without understanding the context of the ascetic wing of the Corinthian church, one easily attributes to Paul an overly negative view of marriage and sexual intercourse. We must never lose sight of the fact that Ephesians 5:21-33 presents, in contrast, a very sublime and positive picture of marriage in the context of a much less "occasional" document (i.e., less tied to the immediate circumstances of the church addressed). The genius of Paul's reply to the Corinthians is that he avoids the extremes of asceticism and hedonism and refused to prize too highly either single or married life. Even when he does give qualified assent to celibacy, as when he advocates remaining single, it is with an entirely different rationale than that used by the Corinthians (Paul primarily gives practical rather than theological reasons).

        Paul demonstrates his pastoral genius by walking so delicate a tightrope. Given his personal preference for the single life, it would have been easy for him to cave in to the pro-celibacy faction and insist that all people become as he was. Given his "pro-marriage" upbringing in Judaism and the lures of easy sex in Corinth, it might have been equally tempting for him to issue a wholesale condemnation of the proponents of celibacy as legalistic, opposed to the goodness of God's creation, and placing an impossible burden on fellow-Christian's shoulders. But he takes neither of these tacks. Instead, he charts a central course, recognizing the strengths and weaknesses of both sides. Modern theological and ethical controversies regularly require Christian leaders to do the same.

        Once we view verse 2 as Paul's qualification of the Corinthian slogan in verse 1, we become less likely to accuse Paul of taking a dim view of marriage and sex. Even if verse 2 is taken as a reason for getting married, it is not the only or even primary reason for doing so mentioned in this chapter (cf. vv. 26-35). But as noted above, verse 2 more likely prepares the way for verses 3-7 by commanding those already married not to withhold sexual privileges from their partners...

        Paul's wish in verse 7 that all were like him resembles God's desire for everyone to be saved (2 Peter 3:9), in that simply wishing it does not mean that it will happen. But in the case of salvation, the alternative is undesirable. Here Paul quickly concedes that God gives gifts to different believers that result in equally desirable options. The word for "gift" (charisma) matches that used in 1:7 and reminds us that spiritual gifts are not to be limited to the representative lists of chapters 12-14. The capacities for celibacy or marriage are abilities God graciously bestows on us for the edification of his church, just as much as teaching, giving, or speaking in tongues (cf. also Matt. 19:10-12). Like other gifts, the gift of singleness may last only for a time. On the other hand, we may seek after the gift of marriage but not obtain it. Yet singleness and marriage are not quite the same as some of the other gifts because they also include obligations on believers that are not optional. No one, for example, may excuse premarital sex by claiming not to have the gift of celibacy! If people are unmarried, they must refrain from sexual intercourse whether they feel like it or not.

        If our interpretation of verse 9 is correct, that Paul is speaking of those who are not controlling themselves, then again Paul seems far less negative about marriage than is often alleged. But even if "cannot" is inserted, as in the NIV's "cannot control themselves, " verse 9 still remains only one valid reason for marriage among others yet to come. Still, avoiding unnecessary lust is an important consideration. Humans were created as sexual beings, and God did not intend for most of them to remain alone (Gen. 2:18; cf. 1:27-28). Sexual pleasures should be enjoyed, but within the proper constraints of a marriage relationship. Paul's recognition that widows and widowers often should remarry, notwithstanding his personal preferences, matches his counsel to younger widows in 1 Timothy 5:14, which is phrased somewhat more positively ("So I counsel younger widows to marry, to have children, to manage their homes and to give the enemy no opportunity to slander").

        © Copyright Original Source

        Last edited by Adrift; 07-16-2015, 08:22 AM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Abigail View Post
          Whag if you look at the context of the early Church, they needed evangelists to get the message out and this would involve traveling and also dangers like prison and even death since Christians were not well received in places. I think this was Paul's way of encouraging single people to be evangelists. It is not impossible to be married and an evangelist but it is more difficult since you will have more things to distract you ie if you have a family you need regular income to support them etc.
          Context is a cop out here. The same need exists today, which is the point of djbrock's blog and basically every one of Nick's posts. They stress a tremendous urgency to change. The world, according to them, is still hostile to Christians. Major battles are being lost. The sky is falling. People will soon marry their dogs, etc.

          Devotion to Jesus is no less halved by the marital decision than it was back then. I see no reason why the same reasoning doesn't apply to Christians today, unless you really think Paul's letter was merely meant to be a snapshot of history to Christian readers with absolutely no applicability today.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
            Or... don't start a family when you're in the middle of a famine?
            Or if you can't properly feed all your children, hence the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by whag View Post
              ...People will soon marry their dogs...
              http://www.nydailynews.com/news/worl...icle-1.1717772

              http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...il-spirit.html

              http://www.nbcnews.com/id/21768663/n...dog-atonement/
              That's what
              - She

              Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
              - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

              I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
              Stephen R. Donaldson

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              • #22
                Originally posted by whag View Post
                7 Now for the matters you wrote about: “It is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman.”.
                That is not what the text says. What it really says, “It is good for a man not to touch a woman." Which some Corinthians interpreted the saying to not have sexual relations with even their own wives. Paul was setting the meaning straight.
                Last edited by 37818; 07-16-2015, 02:10 PM.
                . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                Comment


                • #23
                  Interesting that two of those stories involve theists.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by 37818 View Post
                    That is not what the text says. What it really says, “It is good for a man not to touch a woman." Which some Corinthians interpreted the saying to not have sexual relations with even their own wives. Paul was setting the meaning straight.
                    Um....no. Paul was saying much more than that.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      37818 is on to something here. In 1 Corinthians, on many occasions, Paul was directly quoting the Corinthians letter to him, and answering questions or sometimes even refuting what was said. He was basically doing something akin to using the quote section of this forum.

                      There are a couple occasions where it is not entirely clear what exactly was being quoted and what were Paul's own words as there were no quotation marks in that language.
                      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by whag View Post
                        Um....no. Paul was saying much more than that.
                        So? That translation you used was not what was cited by Paul. He was explaining what was proper in those matters.
                        Last edited by 37818; 07-16-2015, 03:56 PM.
                        . . . the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; . . . -- Romans 1:16 KJV

                        . . . that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures: . . . -- 1 Corinthians 15:3-4 KJV

                        Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: . . . -- 1 John 5:1 KJV

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                          37818 is on to something here. In 1 Corinthians, on many occasions, Paul was directly quoting the Corinthians letter to him, and answering questions or sometimes even refuting what was said. He was basically doing something akin to using the quote section of this forum.

                          There are a couple occasions where it is not entirely clear what exactly was being quoted and what were Paul's own words as there were no quotation marks in that language.
                          I don't think Paul has any business as a celibate explaining what's "proper" in these matters. If my wife isn't in the mood to have sex, I'm certainly not going to enjoy having sex with her. The application of these words is actually quite hideous.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                            37818 is on to something here. In 1 Corinthians, on many occasions, Paul was directly quoting the Corinthians letter to him, and answering questions or sometimes even refuting what was said. He was basically doing something akin to using the quote section of this forum.

                            There are a couple occasions where it is not entirely clear what exactly was being quoted and what were Paul's own words as there were no quotation marks in that language.
                            This seems to be too dismissive of the recommended modern application. It's not merely a snapshot of history to read.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Paul has two versions of human sexuality that he approves of. One is celibacy with abstinence;the other is sexual activity in the context of a marriage to a single person. Everything else is a sin,which is consistent with the rest of the New Testament teaching on the subject.
                              Read my other blog posts at http://reasonablefaithknoxville.org

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by djbrock View Post
                                Paul has two versions of human sexuality that he approves of. One is celibacy with abstinence;the other is sexual activity in the context of a marriage to a single person. Everything else is a sin,which is consistent with the rest of the New Testament teaching on the subject.
                                Would sexual activity inside of marriage permit anal and oral sex? Is masturbation permitted if you don't want to bother your wife (who may not be in the mood)?

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