SSM Coming From a Bisexual Christian

[Starlight]

Your post seemed unnecessarily aggressive.

I thought fm93 was reasonably polite in the way he asked Allie about some of the more absurd and horrible things she was saying.

The victim culture we live in today encourages people to be victims.

Of all the posters on this site, you seem to me to be the number one at playing the victim on any issue.

nowadays there seems to be a definite effort to encourage kids to experiment and try all sorts of relationships because 'you have to try so that you can know what makes you happy'

The idea that kids are widely encouraged to experiment sexually to see if being gay is for them, is a trope that comes from the vivid imaginations of Christians and owes nothing to reality.

You last sentence where you were asking if Allie thought gay people were incapable of giving love seemed pretty sour.

Yeah, the things Allie said were so extreme that even rephrasing them to ask her questions about them still carries some of the awfulness of the original.

[Jedidiah]

Allie said nothing awful. She spoke only the truth. Anyone who says otherwise is a liar.

[Abigail]

I thought fm93 was reasonably polite in the way he asked Allie about some of the more absurd and horrible things she was saying.

passive aggressive is still aggressive.

Of all the posters on this site, you seem to me to be the number one at playing the victim on any issue.

you'll have to wait for my misery memoir

The idea that kids are widely encouraged to experiment sexually to see if being gay is for them, is a trope that comes from the vivid imaginations of Christians and owes nothing to reality.

Time will tell wont it, and it seems like America has some big changes planned for it. The progressive pioneers have laid the ground work and it seems like all systems go.

Yeah, the things Allie said were so extreme that even rephrasing them to ask her questions about them still carries some of the awfulness of the original.

I think Allie addressed this in her post which explains the different kinds of loves.

[Starlight]

The idea that kids are widely encouraged to experiment sexually to see if being gay is for them, is a trope that comes from the vivid imaginations of Christians and owes nothing to reality.

Time will tell wont it, and it seems like America has some big changes planned for it. The progressive pioneers have laid the ground work and it seems like all systems go.

I saw an article today in which a Christian expressed his imaginative fears that in the future kindergartens will encourage their kids to experiment with being male and female, and to try out same-sex relationships. Apparently the vivid imaginations of Christians have few limits.

I think Allie addressed this in her post which explains the different kinds of loves.

Allie made herself fairly clear, not in a good way.

[fm93]

I thought fm93 was reasonably polite in the way he asked Allie about some of the more absurd and horrible things she was saying.

I really have no clue what makes some members here see "passive-aggressiveness" or "condescension" where it simply doesn't exist.

Do I have to explicitly say something like (replete with emoticon and all) " I'm confused. If I may ask...that passage in Romans calls those people "haters of God," but to me that doesn't sound like it describes your situation as a devout Christian. Could you please clarify what you understand that phrase to mean?"

Or do they believe any questioning of her OP, even for clarification purposes, is "inappropriate?"

The idea that kids are widely encouraged to experiment sexually to see if being gay is for them, is a trope that comes from the vivid imaginations of Christians and owes nothing to reality.

Yeah, that was bizarre. I would've asked Abigail about that myself, but she said she wouldn't respond to me any further, so...

Yeah, the things Allie said were so extreme that even rephrasing them to ask her questions about them still carries some of the awfulness of the original.

On that part, I think asked that question primarily for reassurance that she didn't mean what I initially thought she was saying. It was a fairly startling statement to read, especially with a term as vague and multi-faceted as "homosexuality."

[RumTumTugger]

Allie made herself fairly clear, not in a good way.

So says the person who calls evil good, the person who says he is ok with killing a 3 month old baby because she is not perfect.

oh the irony here Starlight( who chose the world not God) falsely calls what Allie( who continues to choose God not the World) said as horrible.

[Adrift]

The idea that kids are widely encouraged to experiment sexually to see if being gay is for them, is a trope that comes from the vivid imaginations of Christians and owes nothing to reality.

I think you're probably a bit sheltered, or maybe things are completely and fantastically different in New Zealand. The majority of my friends either experimented with the same sex (in front of my very eyes, and in very graphic terms), or found themselves confused about their own sexuality because of the then growing social acceptance for all orientations. I was confused about my own sexuality in high school. And this was all in the early/mid 90s. I can only imagine how much worse it's gotten since then.

[fm93]

I think you're probably a bit sheltered, or maybe things are completely and fantastically different in New Zealand. The majority of my friends either experimented with the same sex (in front of my very eyes, and in very graphic terms), or found themselves confused about their own sexuality because of the then growing social acceptance for all orientations. I was confused about my own sexuality in high school. And this was all in the early/mid 90s. I can only imagine how much worse it's gotten since then.

Adrift, I'm genuinely curious--how does this confusion happen, and what's the exact nature of it? I was in high school in America in the 2000s, a cultural context even more socially accepting of all orientations than the 90s were, but I've never doubted that I was anything other than straight. I was never tempted to experiment with the same sex--I have no attraction to such people, and thus the very idea is repulsive to me. Nor have I ever heard anyone encouraging myself or others to sexually experiment "to see what makes us happy."

[Adrift]

Adrift, I'm genuinely curious--how does this confusion happen, and what's the exact nature of it? I was in high school in America in the 2000s, a cultural context even more socially accepting of all orientations than the 90s were, but I've never doubted that I was anything other than straight. I was never tempted to experiment with the same sex--I have no attraction to such people, and thus the very idea is repulsive to me. Nor have I ever heard anyone encouraging myself or others to sexually experiment "to see what makes us happy."

Perhaps you were sheltered, or perhaps you willfully ignored it, or perhaps you were lucky to be in a school where this wasn't a concern. You have two people in this thread now telling you that it has happened. That it does happen. That have experienced it personally. How does confusion happen? It happens when you're told that homosexuality is not only okay, but that homosexuality ought to be celebrated. That's it. That's all it took for me to be seriously confused about my sexual orientation. To stay awake late at night wondering to myself, and worrying "Am I gay? Why do some of my thoughts go to these places? Who am I?" The question "Who am I?", is, in my opinion, a normal thought process for a teenage boy or girl, but it's only been within the last 30 years or so that the sexual orientation question has been mixed into the batter.

It took many years, and many sleepless night to realize that that voice of fear and confusion had no hold on me. I eventually came to the conclusion that "No, I know who I am. I'm a son of God, and I don't need to pay any more heed to these thoughts, and lies bubbling up inside my head". I eventually cleared the confusion and clutter out of my head, but I know a lot of people who were not as successful. Who ended up living very destructive lives because of it.

[Adrift]

I was never tempted to experiment with the same sex--I have no attraction to such people, and thus the very idea is repulsive to me. Nor have I ever heard anyone encouraging myself or others to sexually experiment "to see what makes us happy."

I'm assuming a lot of that comes down to the friends we kept. I was encouraged often to engage in same or strange sex activities. My circle included transvestites, bisexual and homosexual men and women, ex-strippers and sex workers, and drug users (including heroin, coke, and meth), but my own, personal sexual confusion came before I got heavily involved in these circles.

[fm93]

Perhaps you were sheltered, or perhaps you willfully ignored it, or perhaps you were lucky to be in a school where this wasn't a concern. You have two people in this thread now telling you that it has happened. That it does happen. That have experienced it personally. How does confusion happen? It happens when you're told that homosexuality is not only okay, but that homosexuality ought to be celebrated. That's it. That's all it took for me to be seriously confused about my sexual orientation. To stay awake late at night wondering to myself, and worrying "Am I gay? Why do some of my thoughts go to these places? Who am I?" The question "Who am I?", is, in my opinion, a normal thought process for a teenage boy or girl, but it's only been within the last 30 years or so that the sexual orientation question has been mixed into the batter.

It took many years, and many sleepless night to realize that that voice of fear and confusion had no hold on me. I eventually came to the conclusion that "No, I know who I am. I'm a son of God, and I don't need to pay any more heed to these thoughts, and lies bubbling up inside my head". I eventually cleared the confusion and clutter out of my head, but I know a lot of people who were not as successful. Who ended up living very destructive lives because of it.

Alright. Thanks for the explanation. I'm not discounting your experience. I am curious, however, how common or rare it might be, because as I said, I have never for even a single second been confused about my orientation, and every straight person I've discussed these things with has also said (or at least strongly implied) that they never doubted their orientation either. I'm wondering whether I and those others are in the minority or majority.

I'm assuming a lot of that comes down to the friends we kept. I was encouraged often to engage in same or strange sex activities. My circle included transvestites, bisexual and homosexual men and women, ex-strippers and sex workers, and drug users (including heroin, coke, and meth), but my own, personal sexual confusion came before I got heavily involved in these circles.

That makes sense. Basically all the gay people I personally know are either celibate or in a committed relationship.

[hamster]

People are willing to experiment because some people are flexible enough to bend the wrong way a little. I envy flexible people, I spent my whole life up until age 14 just assuming I would be attracted to girls like a normal boy and was baffled at the lack of attraction. I used to try and 'fake it till you make it' but it was like trying to start a campfire in the rain. I've heard that women are naturally more flexible than men

Several studies have shown that women are much more likely than men to report attraction to and physical contact with same-sex partners. Women also show similar genital arousal when viewing images of both sexes in erotic situations.

But exactly why has been a puzzle. Researchers have proposed that women's sexual fluidity enabled women to bond with sister wives in polygamous marriages.

[Adrift]

Basically all the gay people I personally know are either celibate or in a committed relationship.

Wow. Yeah, I didn't even know of any straight people who were celibate or in a committed relationship. In fact, the idea of a "committed relationship" among teenagers or early 20-somethings sounds completely foreign to me. Most of my friends slept with my other friends at some point or another. Were you perhaps raised in a much more Christian environment with Christian peers?

[Starlight]

I think you're probably a bit sheltered, or maybe things are completely and fantastically different in New Zealand. The majority of my friends either experimented with the same sex (in front of my very eyes, and in very graphic terms), or found themselves confused about their own sexuality because of the then growing social acceptance for all orientations. I was confused about my own sexuality in high school. And this was all in the early/mid 90s. I can only imagine how much worse it's gotten since then.

From what you say in your various posts here, I'm not seeing any evidence that there was strong encouragement from schools of other social institution for you and others to experiment. Rather, you're saying that many of your friends were that way inclined and you thought you might be yourself.

Your concern seems to be that unless there exists a sufficiently strong social prejudice against that sort of thing, then anyone who feels that way inclined may indeed act on their desires. I agree: If it isn't banned then the people who want to do it, will do it. The most overoptimistic estimates I've seen of the number of gay and bisexual people in the general population are that 10% of people are gay and 20% are bisexual, while more conservative estimates place the combined totals at 10%, 5%, or 2.5%. So we're not talking about the majority of people wanting to try it out. And we're not talking about schools actively encouraging kids to do so as part of an intentional policy.

At my own high school in the 90s, I do not recall ever once hearing the words "gay" or "bisexual" or "homosexual" leave the mouth of any teacher. The school definitely had no interest in touching any controversial social issues with a 10 foot pole. I talked someone last year about this topic, who'd just finished highschool, and they also said that never once did any schoolteacher mention the words or say anything on the subject. When I was at high school, there was nobody who was openly gay or bisexual that I was aware of.

[Starlight]

It happens when you're told that homosexuality is not only okay, but that homosexuality ought to be celebrated. That's it. That's all it took for me to be seriously confused about my sexual orientation. To stay awake late at night wondering to myself, and worrying "Am I gay? Why do some of my thoughts go to these places? Who am I?"

From what I understand, experiencing a fair amount of stress over sexual identity is fairly common among bisexual people. Just bear in mind that bisexuals are a minority, and so it's not justified to project your own experiences to everyone else in this instance.

Equally, bear in mind that bisexual people, being attracted to both genders, when choosing what relationships to pursue, can make a choice if they wish to only pursue relationships with a particular gender and so end up with someone they are happy with of the gender of their choice. People who are attracted to only one gender don't have that freedom of choice. Telling them that they ought to make the 'right choice' like you did is unreasonably projecting your own desires on to them, and asking something quite different of them than what you yourself chose and experienced.