SSM Coming From a Bisexual Christian

[Jesse]

Hey fm93,

Could you give it a rest for a bit? Your response seems inappropriate here. Not everything that is said needs your condescending opinion. Just FYI.

[Boxing Pythagoras]

Hey fm93,

Could you give it a rest for a bit? Your response seems inappropriate here. Not everything that is said needs your condescending opinion. Just FYI.

To be fair, FM93's questions seem like very honest ones, though they may be a bit tough. I don't see anything approaching a "condescending opinion," in them. Now, I'll completely understand if Allie doesn't want to engage with them, but she opened up about a difficult issue in a forum which is ostensibly centered around defending Christian beliefs against the tough questions. It's entirely understandable that FM93 took this as an invitation for dialectic.

If Allie's purpose in writing this thread was simply to open up about that part of her life and to share her opinion about the proper Christian view of LGBT mentality, then she need only to tell FM93 as such, and all ends well. If, however, she was looking to really discuss the topic and engage with those who understand things a bit differently than she does, I think Aliie would rather welcome FM93's questions. Either way, let's let her or Nick tell us, rather than assuming that place for them.

[Jesse]

To be fair, FM93's questions seem like very honest ones, though they may be a bit tough. I don't see anything approaching a "condescending opinion," in them. Now, I'll completely understand if Allie doesn't want to engage with them, but she opened up about a difficult issue in a forum which is ostensibly centered around defending Christian beliefs against the tough questions. It's entirely understandable that FM93 took this as an invitation for dialectic.

If Allie's purpose in writing this thread was simply to open up about that part of her life and to share her opinion about the proper Christian view of LGBT mentality, then she need only to tell FM93 as such, and all ends well. If, however, she was looking to really discuss the topic and engage with those who understand things a bit differently than she does, I think Aliie would rather welcome FM93's questions. Either way, let's let her or Nick tell us, rather than assuming that place for them.

Eh, I see your point. This just struck me as a bit heavy handed given the subject matter. Whether Allie sees it the same way is up to her. I saw it as inappropriate.

[mossrose]

To be fair, FM93's questions seem like very honest ones, though they may be a bit tough. I don't see anything approaching a "condescending opinion," in them. Now, I'll completely understand if Allie doesn't want to engage with them, but she opened up about a difficult issue in a forum which is ostensibly centered around defending Christian beliefs against the tough questions. It's entirely understandable that FM93 took this as an invitation for dialectic.

If Allie's purpose in writing this thread was simply to open up about that part of her life and to share her opinion about the proper Christian view of LGBT mentality, then she need only to tell FM93 as such, and all ends well. If, however, she was looking to really discuss the topic and engage with those who understand things a bit differently than she does, I think Aliie would rather welcome FM93's questions. Either way, let's let her or Nick tell us, rather than assuming that place for them.

Seriously. You need to stop being so reasonable!

[fm93]

Hey Jesse,

Could you give it a rest for a bit? Your response is inappropriate here. Not everything that is said needs your condescending opinion. Or for you to read "condescension" into statements where it wasn't intended and doesn't exist. Just FYI. Thanks.

To be fair, FM93's questions seem like very honest ones, though they may be a bit tough. I don't see anything approaching a "condescending opinion," in them. Now, I'll completely understand if Allie doesn't want to engage with them, but she opened up about a difficult issue in a forum which is ostensibly centered around defending Christian beliefs against the tough questions. It's entirely understandable that FM93 took this as an invitation for dialectic.

If Allie's purpose in writing this thread was simply to open up about that part of her life and to share her opinion about the proper Christian view of LGBT mentality, then she need only to tell FM93 as such, and all ends well. If, however, she was looking to really discuss the topic and engage with those who understand things a bit differently than she does, I think Aliie would rather welcome FM93's questions. Either way, let's let her or Nick tell us, rather than assuming that place for them.

Thank you. I'm really not sure why the questions I asked would be considered tough, though. I just wanted to ask her where something happened, and if she could clarify what some of her statements meant.

[Abigail]

We all occasionally exhibit some of those bad qualities in varying amounts, but would you really say you were FILLED with them? Did you have "murder" within you when the attractions to other girls flared up? Were you "a hater of God" when that happened, despite being a Christian through all that time?

Why should she necessarily have those things when she was attracted to other girls. The passage is not about homosexuals, it is about people who do not honor God as they should (Romans 1:18-22) and the fruit that that behaviour bears. Same-sex acts are but one of the list of bad fruits that result from not giving God His due honor - just as are strife, gossip, greed, deceit, malice, murder etc etc.

[Abigail]

Hey Jesse,

Could you give it a rest for a bit? Your response is inappropriate here. Not everything that is said needs your condescending opinion. Or for you to read "condescension" into statements where it wasn't intended and doesn't exist. Just FYI. Thanks.

You do come across as pretty mean spirited. Especially in light of the fact you were the one who was lecturing the rest of us on our lack of love. Why lecture Allie just because SOME parents have shown their kids the door. This was done in past times for a lot more things than homosexuality. You are just upset because she is not prepared to embrace the culture you want.

[fm93]

You do come across as pretty mean spirited.

That certainly wasn't my intention. I do realize, of course, that sometimes I might inadvertently convey a message or tone that I didn't intend at all. I sniped at Jesse because he's had this tendency, in prior interactions, to be condescending himself while accusing me of being condescending, and when I ask him if he could please explain what he finds condescending about it, he doesn't provide an answer.

So if I may ask, what specifically have I said that you perceive as "mean-spirited," and which parts/contexts give you that impression?

Especially in light of the fact you were the one who was lecturing the rest of us on our lack of love.

"Lecturing?" That certainly wasn't an impression I wanted to give either.

But okay, then. Allow me to ask you something--how would you prefer that I address the problems that I perceive?

Why lecture Allie just because SOME parents have shown their kids the door.

I was making a mere observation, not lecturing her.

You are just upset because she is not prepared to embrace the culture you want.

That's not the case. Please don't try to read my mind.

[whag]

The way I see it, toodles made a brave confession interwoven with an emphatic opinion that bisexuality is from the pit of hell. I don't think she would have done that without being willing to discuss that opinion with those who disagree.

[toodlesdoodles]

You actually briefly alluded to it before, although I think it may have been on the old TWeb. So technically, it already wasn't a secret. But I appreciate your openness in elaborating this.


Hmm, uh...if you don't mind me asking, what high school was this? "Most" of the students were LGBT? And they were openly speaking of sexual acts they were doing, not just their orientation? I seem to recall Nick mentioning that you were living in the metro Atlanta area when he met you, and the environment you describe doesn't jive with my experiences of the area.


I'm glad you were fortunate enough to have had parents who wouldn't disown you. The same can't be said about everyone with such urges, unfortunately. I'm also glad that you found the will/strength/Providence to carry on in the midst of such internal torment. The same can't be said about everyone with such urges in that regard either, unfortunately.


We all occasionally exhibit some of those bad qualities in varying amounts, but would you really say you were FILLED with them? Did you have "murder" within you when the attractions to other girls flared up? Were you "a hater of God" when that happened, despite being a Christian through all that time?


Were you ever tempted to abuse yourself with mankind when those urges emerged?


What exactly are you saying here? That people who are homosexual are incapable of genuinely giving and experiencing love with others? That your mere feeling of attraction to women was, I don't know, "spiritually shipped" directly from hell, rather than being an inconvenience that you were simply dealt?

The high school was a public charter school. It's not there anymore though. It shut down after I graduated unfortunately. I thought it was a great school, it was more hands-on learning which was easier for me to learn. Yes, I was fortunate to have parents who didn't disown me. Instead I had a parent who didn't even believe me. I don't think it's right for parents to disown their children who struggle with homosexuality. They need to be loved just as any sinner needs to be loved. Was I a "hater of God" when I had those feelings for women despite being a Christian? Let's take it a step further, am I today a "hater of God" when I still have feelings for women despite being a Christian? When you sin you are saying you hate God. That's why the penalty of sin was so severe, to the point where Christ had to die on a cross for us. So yes, when I sin in any form, I am saying I hate God. Homosexuality is in this same category. Yes, I was tempted to abuse myself with mankind when these urges emerged. It's abusing your body when you act it out and I came very close at times to acting them out with other women. I'm not saying homosexuals are incapable of genuinely giving and experiencing love with others. Love is such a funny word really. We use that word to mean so many things. We say "I love you" to our significant other and then we turn around and say, "I love tacos?" It's insane! The Greeks had four different types of love. You have storge, which was family love, philia, which was friendship, eros, which was where we get the word erotic, and agape, which is the kind of love God gives. Homosexuality is the same kind of sin as someone who would be having an affair. You could have the friendship or philia love. You could have the family or storge love. You could have the erotic or eros love. But the question isn't if they can love someone, the question is if it's right in God's eyes and the answer is no. It's horrific in his eyes! That's why we have to not act out on those sinful desires. If that means you have to be celibate then so be it. When I was at my highest point and headed towards being more of a lesbian than a bisexual (which was after I was married), I considered I might have to be celibate which would have to be unfortunate for my husband but it was something I was considering because I was not going to dishonor God because of my urges.

[Abigail]

That certainly wasn't my intention. I do realize, of course, that sometimes I might inadvertently convey a message or tone that I didn't intend at all. I sniped at Jesse because he's had this tendency, in prior interactions, to be condescending himself while accusing me of being condescending, and when I ask him if he could please explain what he finds condescending about it, he doesn't provide an answer.

So if I may ask, what specifically have I said that you perceive as "mean-spirited," and which parts/contexts give you that impression?

Most of your comments including the ones I answered.

"Lecturing?" That certainly wasn't an impression I wanted to give either.

But okay, then. Allow me to ask you something--how would you prefer that I address the problems that I perceive?

I was making a mere observation, not lecturing her.


That's not the case. Please don't try to read my mind.

I wasn't reading your mind. I was reading your post and that is how it seemed to me. Evidently I wasn't the only one who thought it lacking.

[whag]

I have to agree with RTT. I struggled with s*xual type temptations that were just plain weird during adolescence and very young adulthood. However I came to understand a few things. 1) All pornography especially the playboy type is designed to tempt everyone, men and women alike. That's basically what makes it so dangerous.
During adolescence the body undergoes odd changes and some women have more testosterone than others. (I ended up with a mild form of polycystic ovarian which blessed me with extra types of hormones, even some facial hair, and leg hair, I keep it treated by waxing I've had cysts removed recently two pregnancies, hormones, and plucking so no one knows I have anything there, but during teenage years its awkward)
Its very normal to have odd sexualized dreams and feelings, not that the media will tell you that. Sometimes they can be a symptom of mood disorders. But again no one says or is willing to say it. Its really important to get that treated.
A lot of our experiences in adolescence level off. However these days, the liberal media wants us to do what we feel with out restriction. I'm extremely thankful to see that there are others with self discipline to make it to adulthood out there.

I have a female friend who, at ages 9 and 10, serially molested her younger sister who was 5-6. Two years off and on. My sister molested me once when she was 12 and I was 10. These things need to be talked about. Sexuality is indeed strange and expresses itself much earlier than society has been willing to admit, probably because of unwarranted embarrassment and shame. My molesting friend made peace with her sister mainly because her sister came to the conclusion that 10 years old is a funky time to have such an explosion of sexual feelings. How the heck does a 10 year old process that??? I similarly forgave my sister because I realized I couldn't rationally harbor resentment toward a highly confused 12 year old who had already suffered enough shame that expressed itself in self destructive ways when she reached adulthood.

[Jedidiah]

After seeing how this whole thing has been dealt with, by ff. Starlight and FM93, I must say I will not ever discuss any personal matters in public forums. Kudos to toodlesdoodles for her dealing with it.

[Catholicity]

I have a female friend who, at ages 9 and 10, serially molested her younger sister who was 5-6. Two years off and on. My sister molested me once when she was 12 and I was 10. These things need to be talked about. Sexuality is indeed strange and expresses itself much earlier than society has been willing to admit, probably because of unwarranted embarrassment and shame. My molesting friend made peace with her sister mainly because her sister came to the conclusion that 10 years old is a funky time to have such an explosion of sexual feelings. How the heck does a 10 year old process that??? I similarly forgave my sister because I realized I couldn't rationally harbor resentment toward a highly confused 12 year old who had already suffered enough shame that expressed itself in self destructive ways when she reached adulthood.

I know hormones can start as early as 10, and the younger a person has any kind of awkward experience, including and especially abuse, s*xual feelings blossom sooner. Although, I have heard of it happening sooner without provocation and while rare it appears to be a sign of mental illness (that is inclinations toward s*x, or deviant type behavior not the age when children suddenly get curious and want to know the birds and the bees.)
As far as 10 year olds....if they have sudden strong feelings, I think they need to be able to resolve them in safe neutral places without encouragement one way or the other. A sudden onset of hormones often coincides with sudden onsets of emotion, ideally a child should be able to trust the parents to be able to talk to them and the parents ideally should be able to seek help. Sadly the world isn't perfect.

[whag]

After seeing how this whole thing has been dealt with, by ff. Starlight and FM93, I must say I will not ever discuss any personal matters in public forums. Kudos to toodlesdoodles for her dealing with it.

Maybe it's time to make this forum Christian exclusive. It doesn't really make sense any other way given the subject matter.