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Notice – The ministries featured in this section of TheologyWeb are guests of this site and in some cases not bargaining for the rough and tumble world of debate forums, though sometimes they are. Additionally, this area is frequented and highlighted for guests who also very often are not acclimated to debate fora. As such, the rules of conduct here will be more strict than in the general forum. This will be something within the discretion of the Moderators and the Ministry Representative, but we simply ask that you conduct yourselves in a manner considerate of the fact that these ministries are our invited guests. You can always feel free to start a related thread in general forum without such extra restrictions. Thank you.
Deeper Waters is founded on the belief that the Christian community has long been in the shallow end of Christianity while there are treasures of the deep waiting to be discovered. Too many in the shallow end are not prepared when they go out beyond those waters and are quickly devoured by sharks. We wish to aid Christians to equip them to navigate the deeper waters of the ocean of truth and come up with treasure in the end.
We also wish to give special aid to those often neglected, that is, the disabled community. This is especially so since our founders are both on the autism spectrum and have a special desire to reach those on that spectrum. While they are a special emphasis, we seek to help others with any disability realize that God can use them and that they are as the Psalmist says, fearfully and wonderfully made.
General TheologyWeb forum rules: here.
Deeper Waters is founded on the belief that the Christian community has long been in the shallow end of Christianity while there are treasures of the deep waiting to be discovered. Too many in the shallow end are not prepared when they go out beyond those waters and are quickly devoured by sharks. We wish to aid Christians to equip them to navigate the deeper waters of the ocean of truth and come up with treasure in the end.
We also wish to give special aid to those often neglected, that is, the disabled community. This is especially so since our founders are both on the autism spectrum and have a special desire to reach those on that spectrum. While they are a special emphasis, we seek to help others with any disability realize that God can use them and that they are as the Psalmist says, fearfully and wonderfully made.
General TheologyWeb forum rules: here.
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The Supreme Court And Redefining Marriage
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I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostThe slave trade was doing just fine without people justifying it with the Bible, on the other hand, it took Christians using their Bibles to end it. Same can be said for the rest.
I'm not impressed with religion's role in correcting a problem it also perpetuated.
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Originally posted by whag View PostYes, it definitely was the Bible specifically (all those specific anti-slave verses), and not the obvious sustainability of the system itself.
I'm not impressed with religion's role in correcting a problem it also perpetuated.
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Originally posted by whag View PostYes, it definitely was the Bible specifically (all those specific anti-slave verses), and not the obvious sustainability of the system itself.
I'm not impressed with religion's role in correcting a problem it also perpetuated.If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostYes, because slavery wasn't sustainable for thousands of years before Christians came upon the scene and highlighted the equality of all within the body of Christ.
Originally posted by Adrift View PostAgain, not unexpected.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostHere's the difficultly there, fm..... Christians (at least many of us) believe homosexuality is a sin. A "gay couple" has made the choice to perpetuate sin. It's more akin to anybody else who came to us and said, "I want you to accept me, but I want to continue sinning".
Even with the woman caught in adultery, Jesus didn't say, "OK, cool - continue as you were". He told her "go and sin no more".
Basically, I'm reiterating what I already said--treat them as people, not as issues. The mature adults who wish to marry other consenting mature adults after this ruling obviously aren't in support of pedophilia and would likely severely condemn it. So dropping the dumb comparisons to pedophilia would be a nice start.
Above all, do NOT let anyone get away with statements like this:
Gays are a generally miserable lot. Homosexuality and deep-seated psychological problems go hand in hand (for obvious reasons), and it is extremely rare to come across someone who is gay and genuinely happy and satisfied with his life. They thought that pushing for broader social acceptance would bring them happiness, but it didn't. They thought that pushing for broader legal acceptance would bring them happiness, but it didn't. So they looked around and saw all these happy, married, heterosexual couples and thought, "Ah ha! So that's the secret! If only we could marry. Then we would truly be happy!" And so the push over the past several years has been the actions of people desperate to escape the misery of their existence, thinking that happiness, real, lasting happiness, is just a court decision away. And I'm sure they're happy today, or at least they think they are. The problem, of course, is that you can't run away from yourself, and they'll find, to their increasing frustration, that they're right back at the same, miserable condition they were decades ago when they began this crusade. And so they'll set their sights on the next target, and the whole thing will start over again.
There's no end to it because there is no magical solution that will bring happiness to homosexuals.
And again, that's what I mean by "treat them as people, not as issues." Besides that abominable screed, the nameless poster has also spread excrement about studies purportedly showing that children are more likely to suffer harm under gay parents. Never mind that most, if not all, of those studies have been shown to be flawed, and that other studies have come to the opposite conclusion. Essentially telling someone "You can't be a good parent, because some other people who share with you this one characteristic of your brain being wired to feel attraction only to people of the same sex weren't good parents" does not send the impression that you love that person. Love would involve directly getting to know him/her on a personal level, not viewing him/her as a statistic.
Originally posted by Zymologist View PostYou're absolutely right that Christians should be known by their love (the Bible says this almost exactly), and that we often aren't. That's bad. However, this particular situation is difficult because it seems as though any opposition to SSM or homosexuality at all is defined as hateful, so that Christians literally can't say, "I disagree with your lifestyle but still love you." At least, not without being dismissed as hateful and bigoted simply by definition.Last edited by fm93; 06-26-2015, 09:30 PM.Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17
I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer
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Originally posted by Christianbookworm View PostI'm confused. How is a preference for a romantic partner of a certain gender a lifestyle????Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17
I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer
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Originally posted by fm93 View PostIt isn't. That's another thing that the church needs to stop doing--drop the use of lines like "the gay lifestyle," especially if you're a Christian talking to a gay person whom you don't know well. As if all such people lived in the exact same manner and did the exact same things.If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!
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Originally posted by fm93 View PostThey don't believe that their relationship is sinful.
They're not consciously thinking "I want you to accept me, but I want to continue sinning."
Jesus showed his love for her through his actions--mainly, that he defended her from people who wanted to stone her. He didn't start off by lecturing her about how sinful he thought she was.
Christians can apply a similar principle. Stand up for gay people in times of need and injustice.
Come to their defense if they're under attack. If you can show gay people through your actions that you genuinely love them, they'll likely be more receptive to the possibility of same-sex relationships being sinful.
Basically, I'm reiterating what I already said--treat them as people, not as issues.
The mature adults who wish to marry other consenting mature adults after this ruling obviously aren't in support of pedophilia and would likely severely condemn it. So dropping the dumb comparisons to pedophilia would be a nice start.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by whag View PostSuch a pathetically overused comparison. Alcoholism is destructive. Two women making love to each other doesn’t harm either party.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by fm93 View Post
I mean, what the hell? I struggle to even begin to describe how irrational, presumptuous and insulting that is. The poster, whom I refuse to name here, is shamelessly engaging in contrived psychoanalysis--acting as if he can read people's minds and "tell" that a majority of them (hence the "generally") are filled with internal frustration and misery, or that they have deep-seated psychological problems. Or being able to predict the future and just "know" that marriages won't bring them lasting happiness. There's simply no way of knowing that, at least not at the moment. Besides, the evidence that already exists indicates that marriages can bring much lasting joy to people, so if anything, the future is likely to show that marriages WILL bring gay couples joy as well.
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Originally posted by whag View PostEven more interesting that when you think of gays, you always think of male-on-male buttsex."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by whag View PostEven more interesting that when you think of gays, you always think of male-on-male buttsex.
I think you chose "two women" because you really can't argue that homosexual sex is not harmful.
Even with all this euphoria about how wonderful it is to be gay....
The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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