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The Supreme Court And Redefining Marriage

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  • The Supreme Court And Redefining Marriage

    What do we do?

    The link can be found here.

    The text is as follows:

    What do we do now that the court has ruled? Let's plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

    Like many of you, I'm disappointed by the ruling of the court today on marriage, but I am not shocked. We've had this before and it's not the end of the world. The court also ruled on abortion. The question now comes to what are we going to do from here?

    We are going to do what our marching orders already were. They were the Great Commission and they haven't changed. They're still the same. Are we living in a culture that despises Christianity for the most part. Yes, as were the first Christians and in fact, they lived in a worse one. (I am speaking to those living in America) We have not yet resisted, as Hebrews would say, to the point of shedding our blood, though many of us do think such a time is coming. Many of us can be disappointed that this ruling happened, and that is understandable, but we should not be shocked. Why did it happen?

    It's not because the world did what they do. That is what we'd expect. Why should we expect people who don't share that worldview would act as if they did? If you want to know what has gone wrong in this country, it is not the fault of those outside the body of Christ. They are not to blame. It is the fault of those who are in the body of Christ. The reason things have happened the way they have is we have not followed our marching orders. We have insulated ourselves inside of our little bubbles and hoped that Jesus would just come back and ignored what happened in the world around us. I mean, as long as we and our children are okay, so what? We've done our part.

    We have never fully done our part. Our part is never done.

    Today is not a day to look in fear. Today is a day to look at what has happened and say "Challenge accepted." We never stopped fighting against abortion despite the ruling of the court, just as over a century and a half ago some would not stop fighting against slavery, despite the Dred Scott decision. Why should we stop now? If we are right in our claim that marriage is a man and a woman, no ruling from a court could change that. That would be like saying that if the court ruled tomorrow that triangles have four sides or that something can go faster than the speed of light, then we would accept those things as well.

    So what do we do?

    The same thing we've always done. We just now remember what the stakes are when we don't follow our marching orders. We are to do all that we can to spread the Kingdom of God and it should not be a shock to us that we face opposition along that path and often from the governments, just like the early Christians did. Let us instead of being afraid, come together and unite as we should and do that which we were told to do.

    We will be either obedient to Christ or we won't.

    I've made my choice.

    What's yours?

    in Christ,
    Nick Peters

  • #2
    If the church had done its job, marriages would only be performed by religious institutions who would be free to perform the ceremony for whomever they chose, and the issue today would be called, "same sex civil unions."

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by jpholding View Post
      If the church had done its job, marriages would only be performed by religious institutions who would be free to perform the ceremony for whomever they chose, and the issue today would be called, "same sex civil unions."
      I think the church also majorly shot itself in the foot by opposing interracial marriage in some quarters, setting up the obvious counterarguments being used. My own grandmother still vocally opposes them... and she learned these arguments in church. I know it wasn't a majority of Christians but we didn't do a good enough job pushing back against these.
      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
        I think the church also majorly shot itself in the foot by opposing interracial marriage in some quarters, setting up the obvious counterarguments being used. My own grandmother still vocally opposes them... and she learned these arguments in church. I know it wasn't a majority of Christians but we didn't do a good enough job pushing back against these.
        I don't want to agree with this.



        But, yeah.
        "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
          I think the church also majorly shot itself in the foot by opposing interracial marriage in some quarters, setting up the obvious counterarguments being used. My own grandmother still vocally opposes them... and she learned these arguments in church. I know it wasn't a majority of Christians but we didn't do a good enough job pushing back against these.
          I'd say the church has not only shot itself in the foot, it's also shot itself right through the heart and essentially committed suicide. Growing up, I frequently disagreed and argued with my parents about countless things. Some of these morphed into angry arguments. But sometimes my parents would say something like "Son, although we disagree with each other, at the end of the day you know we still love you, right?" And I could always confidently answer "Yes." There was never any doubt in my mind. They showed their love even in the midst of disagreement. Now imagine if traditional-leaning Christians asked gay couples "Although we disagree with each other, do you sense that we still love you?" I'd wager that many gay people would answer "No. Not at all. You hardly ever/never give me the impression that you love and care about me."


          That's a problem. If those who the church is trying to reach out to can't detect any love, the church has failed not only in its mission, but in its entire approach. Which option do you think Jesus would prefer--the church somehow keeps same-sex marriage illegal, but gay people go home thinking "Christians don't love me and in fact may actually hate me. The same probably applies to the god they claim to worship"? Or that the church is unable to prevent same-sex marriage from becoming legal, but gay couples go home thinking "I don't agree with what those Christians say, but I can't deny that they genuinely love me. The same probably applies to the God they worship."?


          (As an example, you're highly unlikely to make disciples of the nations if your approach consists of basically telling gay folks who simply want to settle down and perhaps raise children with a person whom they deeply adore about how sinful they are, especially if you reference the Sodomites as comparison. I mean, even if you believe God doesn't approve of same-sex marriage, their intentions appear to be fairly innocuous; comparing their situation to evil men who wanted to gang rape angels and may not have actually been homosexually-oriented themselves indicates that you're grossly lacking in discernment. As the saying goes, treat people as people, not as issues.)


          And more to the point, there's a significant problem of hypocrisy that's mortally wounded the church. We've mentioned this before, but when Christians preach about the sanctity of marriage while half of them end up getting divorced, they aren't going to be seen as trustworthy or authoritative on that topic. Or when some people in Alabama protest the Supreme Court ruling by deciding to not offer marriage licenses to anyone period--how can you convince anyone that you're trying to uphold and preserve the sacred institution of marriage when you pull THAT stunt? It sends the message that they'd rather not have anyone marry than allow gay people to marry, which betrays their trustworthiness and doesn't convince gay couples that they're genuinely loved.
          Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

          I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by fm93 View Post
            I'd say the church has not only shot itself in the foot, it's also shot itself right through the heart and essentially committed suicide.
            That may be wishful thinking, but the Church is still quite alive.
            "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by fm93 View Post
              Now imagine if traditional-leaning Christians asked gay couples "Although we disagree with each other, do you sense that we still love you?" I'd wager that many gay people would answer "No. Not at all. You hardly ever/never give me the impression that you love and care about me."
              Here's the difficultly there, fm..... Christians (at least many of us) believe homosexuality is a sin. A "gay couple" has made the choice to perpetuate sin. It's more akin to anybody else who came to us and said, "I want you to accept me, but I want to continue sinning".

              Even with the woman caught in adultery, Jesus didn't say, "OK, cool - continue as you were". He told her "go and sin no more".
              "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by fm93 View Post
                (As an example, you're highly unlikely to make disciples of the nations if your approach consists of basically telling gay folks who simply want to settle down and perhaps raise children with a person whom they deeply adore about how sinful they are, especially if you reference the Sodomites as comparison.
                Wow... ok, so the criteria is "as long as they deeply love and adore", they can continue in sin? Does that include pedophiles? And you don't seem to grasp the concept of "disciple", which is a learner - one who has a teachable spirit. When somebody says, "I don't care what the Bible says, I will live my life they way I want to live", they're hardly discipleship material.

                I mean, even if you believe God doesn't approve of same-sex marriage,
                That's not the issue - the issue is that homosexuality is a sin. And "doubling down" on it to turn it into a "relationship", excused because "they love and adore" one another is just goofy.

                their intentions appear to be fairly innocuous;
                Sin is not excused because the sinner "appears to be fairly innocuous".
                "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by fm93 View Post
                  I'd say the church has not only shot itself in the foot, it's also shot itself right through the heart and essentially committed suicide. Growing up, I frequently disagreed and argued with my parents about countless things. Some of these morphed into angry arguments. But sometimes my parents would say something like "Son, although we disagree with each other, at the end of the day you know we still love you, right?" And I could always confidently answer "Yes." There was never any doubt in my mind. They showed their love even in the midst of disagreement. Now imagine if traditional-leaning Christians asked gay couples "Although we disagree with each other, do you sense that we still love you?" I'd wager that many gay people would answer "No. Not at all. You hardly ever/never give me the impression that you love and care about me."


                  That's a problem. If those who the church is trying to reach out to can't detect any love, the church has failed not only in its mission, but in its entire approach. Which option do you think Jesus would prefer--the church somehow keeps same-sex marriage illegal, but gay people go home thinking "Christians don't love me and in fact may actually hate me. The same probably applies to the god they claim to worship"? Or that the church is unable to prevent same-sex marriage from becoming legal, but gay couples go home thinking "I don't agree with what those Christians say, but I can't deny that they genuinely love me. The same probably applies to the God they worship."?


                  (As an example, you're highly unlikely to make disciples of the nations if your approach consists of basically telling gay folks who simply want to settle down and perhaps raise children with a person whom they deeply adore about how sinful they are, especially if you reference the Sodomites as comparison. I mean, even if you believe God doesn't approve of same-sex marriage, their intentions appear to be fairly innocuous; comparing their situation to evil men who wanted to gang rape angels and may not have actually been homosexually-oriented themselves indicates that you're grossly lacking in discernment. As the saying goes, treat people as people, not as issues.)


                  And more to the point, there's a significant problem of hypocrisy that's mortally wounded the church. We've mentioned this before, but when Christians preach about the sanctity of marriage while half of them end up getting divorced, they aren't going to be seen as trustworthy or authoritative on that topic. Or when some people in Alabama protest the Supreme Court ruling by deciding to not offer marriage licenses to anyone period--how can you convince anyone that you're trying to uphold and preserve the sacred institution of marriage when you pull THAT stunt? It sends the message that they'd rather not have anyone marry than allow gay people to marry, which betrays their trustworthiness and doesn't convince gay couples that they're genuinely loved.
                  You're absolutely right that Christians should be known by their love (the Bible says this almost exactly), and that we often aren't. That's bad. However, this particular situation is difficult because it seems as though any opposition to SSM or homosexuality at all is defined as hateful, so that Christians literally can't say, "I disagree with your lifestyle but still love you." At least, not without being dismissed as hateful and bigoted simply by definition.
                  I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I'm confused. How is a preference for a romantic partner of a certain gender a lifestyle???? It's pretty sad if someone bases their identity on who they want to date!
                    If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                      That may be wishful thinking, but the Church is still quite alive.
                      Alive but functionally ineffectual.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        It is only because of the continued presence of the children that our Father's favor rains down on both the righteous and the wicked. There's no doubt about it, the Church is still quite effectual, and it'd be literal hell on earth without it.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Adrift View Post
                          It is only because of the continued presence of the children that our Father's favor rains down on both the righteous and the wicked. There's no doubt about it, the Church is still quite effectual, and it'd be literal hell on earth without it.
                          If your mere "continued presence" keeps hell at bay, it'll be a long while before the new kingdom comes.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by whag View Post
                            If your mere "continued presence" keeps hell at bay, it'll be a long while before the new kingdom comes.
                            That's to be determined by God, not Hell.
                            "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                              That's to be determined by God, not Hell.
                              I must have misunderstood how your presence causes God's favor to rain down on me.

                              Comment

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