Why is Bruce an Exception?

[Cow Poke]

Well, actually, this thread itself seems to be making a show of the whole thing. And I don't believe a claim as bold as "There was NO bravery involved" is at all tenable. Unless you think things like finding the energy to carry on day after day in the face of crippling distress, and undergoing an extensive operation that changes almost everything physical about you is done on a casual whim.

That's an awful lot of words for having said nothing of substance, fm.

[fm93]

That's an awful lot of words for having said nothing of substance, fm.

So you think finding the energy to carry on day after day in the face of crippling distress, and undergoing an extensive operation that changes almost everything physical about you, is done on a casual whim?

[Cow Poke]

So you think finding the energy to carry on day after day in the face of crippling distress, and undergoing an extensive operation that changes almost everything physical about you, is done on a casual whim?

You can be such a drama queen.

[fm93]

You can be such a drama queen.

That's an awful lot of words for having said nothing of substance.

But really, would you mind explaining why you disagree with it?

[Cow Poke]

That's an awful lot of words for having said nothing of substance.

And copy cat! (and it was only 7 words )

[Cow Poke]

So you think finding the energy to carry on day after day in the face of crippling distress,

you forgot the agony of defeat and the heartbreak of psoriasis.

and undergoing an extensive operation

An ELECTIVE surgery (or surgeries) for which, no doubt, copious amounts of sedatives and anesthesia were employed.

that changes almost everything physical about you,

I'm fine the way I am, though I could afford to lose a few pounds.

is done on a casual whim?

See, this is the kind of goofist nonsense that causes my somewhat flippant responses to your drama queen style posts. NOBODY said, or even implied that he did it "on a whim". Why do you write this crap? Why do you have to go to extremes in tying to make a point?

The dude was rich and famous - he has his admirers and his detractors. He was a world class athlete, for cryin' out loud, and you make him sound like some frail little wimpy child. He made a choice that involved DRASTIC measures, and, personally, I anticipate he still won't find peace, because he's looking in the wrong place.

[fm93]

you forgot the agony of defeat and the heartbreak of psoriasis.

Given that 40% of people with gender dysphoria are suicidal, I think we can be reasonably certain that the distress experienced is indeed crippling and devastating. I believe you're grossly trivializing it.

An ELECTIVE surgery (or surgeries) for which, no doubt, copious amounts of sedatives and anesthesia were employed.

The point was about the magnitude of the change, not merely the pain.

I'm fine the way I am, though I could afford to lose a few pounds.

Makes you harder to kidnap, I suppose.

See, this is the kind of goofist nonsense that causes my somewhat flippant responses to your drama queen style posts. NOBODY said, or even implied that he did it "on a whim".

Actually, that essentially is what you're implying when you refer to Jenner as "a man who got fake boobs and put on a dress." Why do you write this crap? Why do you have to go to extremes in trying to make a point? You make it sound like a trivial thing, as if everyone was applauding the act of merely wearing different clothes and whatnot one day--instead of attempting to give respect to a lifetime of painful internal struggle. Feel perfectly free to argue that they're overestimating it, but saying there was NO bravery involved definitely seems like an unwarranted conclusion.

[Cow Poke]

Actually, that essentially is what you're implying when you refer to Jenner as "a man who got fake boobs and put on a dress."

No, it's just your drama queen interpretation.

[Cow Poke]

...but saying there was NO bravery involved definitely seems like an unwarranted conclusion.

I never claimed that, beansprout.

[whag]

I never claimed that, beansprout.

In what way was it brave?

[Cow Poke]

In what way was it brave?

The same way a little kid lets mommy put a bandaid on a cut.

[KingsGambit]

I'm tired of the suicide card being played. Yes, suicide rates are too high among people dealing with these issues. It does not logically follow at all that this means that the solution is just to affirm their feelings on gender.

[Jedidiah]

Given that 40% of people with gender dysphoria are suicidal, I think we can be reasonably certain that the distress experienced is indeed crippling and devastating. I believe you're grossly trivializing it.

History reveals, as has been documented in at least one of these threads, that these gender imitation surgeries do not eliminate the distress. The cause of the distress is not physical, but pathological. People after these surgeries still commit suicide and sometimes go for surgeries to change back to where they were.

[Jedidiah]

I never claimed that, beansprout.

I am the one who claimed that.

[fm93]

I'm tired of the suicide card being played. Yes, suicide rates are too high among people dealing with these issues. It does not logically follow at all that this means that the solution is just to affirm their feelings on gender.

I agree, but I wasn't advocating that certain commenters here "just affirm [the transgender community's] feelings on gender." I was pointing out that what the community faces is a gravely serious issue that demands serious discussion, but those commenters are grossly trivializing the people and issues. If they want to believe that some answer besides affirmation is the way to go, fine. But they don't have to dismiss certain individuals as merely "men who get fake boobs and put on a dress."

History reveals, as has been documented in at least one of these threads, that these gender imitation surgeries do not eliminate the distress.

If you acknowledge that there indeed is distress, a type so severe that it frequently drives people to suicide, then why would you not consider someone who manages to fight off that distress and carry on for almost sixty years to at least have some level of courage?