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General TheologyWeb forum rules: here.
Deeper Waters is founded on the belief that the Christian community has long been in the shallow end of Christianity while there are treasures of the deep waiting to be discovered. Too many in the shallow end are not prepared when they go out beyond those waters and are quickly devoured by sharks. We wish to aid Christians to equip them to navigate the deeper waters of the ocean of truth and come up with treasure in the end.
We also wish to give special aid to those often neglected, that is, the disabled community. This is especially so since our founders are both on the autism spectrum and have a special desire to reach those on that spectrum. While they are a special emphasis, we seek to help others with any disability realize that God can use them and that they are as the Psalmist says, fearfully and wonderfully made.
General TheologyWeb forum rules: here.
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Why I Question The "Personal Relationship" Paradigm
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"I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Could it be that this is a matter of emphasis? One side emphasizes the friendship with Jesus (perhaps too much), while the other side emphasizes his Kingship? This is one of those things that I'm a bit torn on. I find myself agreeing with both sides, a lot of the time.
Still, it would behoove the "Jesus is my homeboy" crowd to remember that he is the King of the universe. Some perspective is always in order.I DENOUNCE DONALD J. TRUMP AND ALL HIS IMMORAL ACTS.
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Originally posted by Zymologist View PostCould it be that this is a matter of emphasis? One side emphasizes the friendship with Jesus (perhaps too much), while the other side emphasizes his Kingship? This is one of those things that I'm a bit torn on. I find myself agreeing with both sides, a lot of the time.
Still, it would behoove the "Jesus is my homeboy" crowd to remember that he is the King of the universe. Some perspective is always in order."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostCouldn't one argue that the reference to "friends" was only specifically to people who personally knew Jesus in the flesh, though?
I do find this way of understanding the NT kind of odd, though. In another thread, DE recently wrote that the book of 1st Peter didn't apply to him because chapter one tells us specifically that its written to the "aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia". I don't think I've ever seen Christians specify which NT passages are applicable to them in quite that way before. Makes one wonder what they think of the rest of the NT like the letters of Paul that are directed to specific people or Christian communities. If we take out all of those passages that don't specifically indicate the Christian church in general, how much Bible are we left with? I mean, obviously, context, good exegesis, and knowing who the original audience was is important for understanding how passages relate to us, but its not like we're under some different covenant. Most of what Jesus said was said to his disciples in the flesh. Most of that still applies to us. Anyways, I digress.
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostI don't think so. Not unless one wants to also argue that God is a respecter of persons, or that the disciples Jesus was talking to in the flesh are under some different/special covenant that we're not. I don't think that's the case.
I do find this way of understanding the NT kind of odd, though. In another thread, DE recently wrote that the book of 1st Peter didn't apply to him because chapter one tells us specifically that its written to the "aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia". I don't think I've ever seen Christians specify which NT passages are applicable to them in quite that way before. Makes one wonder what they think of the rest of the NT like the letters of Paul that are directed to specific people or Christian communities. If we take out all of those passages that don't specifically indicate the Christian church in general, how much Bible are we left with? I mean, obviously, context, good exegesis, and knowing who the original audience was is important for understanding how passages relate to us, but its not like we're under some different covenant. Most of what Jesus said was said to his disciples in the flesh. Most of that still applies to us. Anyways, I digress.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostCouldn't one argue that the reference to "friends" was only specifically to people who personally knew Jesus in the flesh, though? I'm still not sure what to make of this though I'm at the very least partially convinced.Last edited by Andius; 12-23-2014, 04:59 PM.Ladino, Guatemalan, Hispanic, and Latin, but foremostly, Christian.
As of the 1st of December, 2020, officially anointed as this:
"Seinfeld had its Soup Nazi. Tweb has its Taco Nazi." - Rogue06 , https://theologyweb.com/campus/forum...e3#post1210559
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Originally posted by Andius View PostI agree with this as well. And I have the sneaking suspicion (Although I can't recall if true or not) that perhaps this passage was mostly referred to the 12 disciples (His close associates), especially in light of his exhortation to his select appointed ones to bear fruit that will last (although It could be argued that it is a general command to ALL who will follow the Christ in the ages to come, I am open to that as well) . And the term "friend" seems mostly in the sense of "ally", no different of the common ancient use of the term "Friend of Caesar" to refer to the allegiance towards someone, (Which in a way, it's still a personal relationship of sorts) and hardly a casual "buddy" deal.
Of course, if you don't think the passage applies to you, then I suppose its a moot point.
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostWhen I cited this passage I didn't have any "casual 'buddy' deal" in mind. I sorta thought I had made that clear in that previous post, but maybe not. From a purely social context perspective, David deSilva writes of this passage, "Obedience leads to a friendship relationship with Jesus and access to and assurance of God's personal patronage (God's willingness to hear and answer believers' petitions; see also Jn 14:14-17)." (Honor, Patronage, Kinship & Purity, pg. 148)
Of course, if you don't think the passage applies to you, then I suppose its a moot point.
At the moment, I am somewhat ambiguous wether that passage applies to all members of the Church throughout the ages, or the select 12 of that time.Ladino, Guatemalan, Hispanic, and Latin, but foremostly, Christian.
As of the 1st of December, 2020, officially anointed as this:
"Seinfeld had its Soup Nazi. Tweb has its Taco Nazi." - Rogue06 , https://theologyweb.com/campus/forum...e3#post1210559
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostI don't think so. Not unless one wants to also argue that God is a respecter of persons, or that the disciples Jesus was talking to in the flesh are under some different/special covenant that we're not. I don't think that's the case.
I do find this way of understanding the NT kind of odd, though. In another thread, DE recently wrote that the book of 1st Peter didn't apply to him because chapter one tells us specifically that its written to the "aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia". I don't think I've ever seen Christians specify which NT passages are applicable to them in quite that way before. Makes one wonder what they think of the rest of the NT like the letters of Paul that are directed to specific people or Christian communities. If we take out all of those passages that don't specifically indicate the Christian church in general, how much Bible are we left with? I mean, obviously, context, good exegesis, and knowing who the original audience was is important for understanding how passages relate to us, but its not like we're under some different covenant. Most of what Jesus said was said to his disciples in the flesh. Most of that still applies to us. Anyways, I digress.
I think many people already follow this when they interpret Paul's instructions to women about head coverings to mean "don't dress like a harlot to church"."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostI understand your fear here, and I understand some people take these paradigms too far. The way I look at it - some things in the Bible are specific instructions to specific people (like Philemon is written to... Philemon, giving him specific instructions), but that doesn't mean we just ignore everything there - it means we look for the underlying principles at hand and apply these in our own situations. For example, when Paul tells slaves to be content in their situation, we don't have to just ignore it just because we don't have slavery in America - it can be used to tell people in situations like a thankless, dead-end job that they can still be content in Christ. (The idea of just totally writing off a book like 1 Peter is ludicrous.)
I think many people already follow this when they interpret Paul's instructions to women about head coverings to mean "don't dress like a harlot to church".
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Originally posted by Adrift View PostI think that's pretty much right on. And when Jesus tells his disciples that if you obey me, you are my friend, then I think that, even if he wasn't speaking directly to us, we can still apply that principle to our relationship with him.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View PostThe one with Mark Lanier?Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith? -Galatians 3:5
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