Death of an Innocent Black Child

[fm93]

Might want to take note of the topic which is "death of innocent black child" which is why I said "black"

Might want to take note of the topic, which wasn't about anyone being killed by police.

..now back to your regularly scheduled rant about police.

If a calm explanation of how, by a police officer's own testimony, using deadly force may not have been the only plausible option counts as a rant, then I don't know what doesn't qualify as a rant in your world.

[One Bad Pig]

Other black civilians aren't the ones who are legally supposed to be protecting them.

Does that make their murders okay? Oh, and pro-tip for those worried about being shot by police: I'm fairly certain that those who haven't broken the law or behaved in a threatening manner toward a law enforcement officer have zero chance of getting shot by them.

Because protesting that a criminal got shot while charging at a police officer is just dumb. I don't care if it's Michael Brown or Sammy the Skinhead.

[Christianbookworm]

Don't trigger a cop's fight-or-flight instincts! Or anyone armed for that matter...

[fm93]

Does that make their murders okay?

Of course not. I'm just explaining why black people say that they see the two types of killings differently.

Oh, and pro-tip for those worried about being shot by police: I'm fairly certain that those who haven't broken the law or behaved in a threatening manner toward a law enforcement officer have zero chance of getting shot by them.

Even Sparko acknowledges that that isn't true.
http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...at-Gas-Station

Because protesting that a criminal got shot while charging at a police officer is just dumb. I don't care if it's Michael Brown or Sammy the Skinhead.

Technically, many people are protesting because they don't believe that he was charging the officer when he got shot. It's possible that they may be factually wrong, but their logic is not dumb.

[One Bad Pig]

Even Sparko acknowledges that that isn't true.
http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/sh...at-Gas-Station

Er, no he doesn't. The cop thought the guy was acting in a threatening manner.

Technically, many people are protesting because they don't believe that he was charging the officer when he got shot. It's possible that they may be factually wrong, but their logic is not dumb.

I have not seen any evidence that he was running away when he got shot except for testimony contradicted by both other testimony and the available forensic evidence. Maybe people should be more interested in acknowledging unpalatable truth than believing what they want to believe.

[fm93]

Er, no he doesn't. The cop thought the guy was acting in a threatening manner.

So it's okay for him to shoot (which could possibly have killed) an innocent, unarmed person just because he overreacted and mistakenly thought the person was acting in a threatening manner?

I have not seen any evidence that he was running away when he got shot except for testimony contradicted by both other testimony and the available forensic evidence.

Didn't say he was running away when he got shot. Could've been that he was staggering forward after the first few bullets hit him, and Wilson and some of the witnesses lied or mistakenly perceived him to be charging forward in attack mode before firing the fatal shot. Could've been a number of things.

Maybe people should be more interested in acknowledging unpalatable truth than believing what they want to believe.

Like the radical notion that all people have a right to life extending throughout their lives, not just their time in the womb?

[One Bad Pig]

So it's okay for him to shoot (which could possibly have killed) an innocent, unarmed person just because he overreacted and mistakenly thought the person was acting in a threatening manner?

Never said it was.

Didn't say he was running away when he got shot.

You're defending the protestors who believe that.

Could've been that he was staggering forward after the first few bullets hit him, and Wilson and some of the witnesses lied or mistakenly perceived him to be charging forward in attack mode before firing the fatal shot. Could've been a number of things.

Could be your imagination running wild, too. Wilson AND some of the (black) witnesses lied to protect him? In the heat of the moment, if he's still obviously moving forward, he's still a threat.

Like the radical notion that all people have a right to life extending throughout their lives, not just their time in the womb?

That is a radical notion, yes. Governments from time immemorial have agreed that some acts are so despicable that they merit the forfeiture of the remainder of the perpetrator's life. Was the Mosaic covenant evil because it prescribed the death penalty for some acts? Is Paul evil for justifying governmental use of the death penalty in Romans 13:4? But many of the same people who vociferously rail against Michael Brown's death feel no compunction over terminating the life of one who has not even had the opportunity to do wrong.

[fm93]

You're defending the protestors who believe that.

Not exactly. I am defending their right to protest, as well as the other civic requests that they have, but not all of their beliefs.

In the heat of the moment, if he's still obviously moving forward, he's still a threat.

Despite being unarmed and his severely hindered by injury?

That is a radical notion, yes. Governments from time immemorial have agreed that some acts are so despicable that they merit the forfeiture of the remainder of the perpetrator's life. Was the Mosaic covenant evil because it prescribed the death penalty for some acts? Is Paul evil for justifying governmental use of the death penalty in Romans 13:4?

Well...this is one of the reasons that I'm no longer sure how to classify my theological beliefs. That would appear to be a standstill to the discussion. But if nothing else, many of those are violent acts like murder and rape, while Brown did not murder (nor is there evidence that he ever raped), even if he maybe attempted to. Besides, Moses and Paul actually DID commit murder, but were apparently forgiven by God and were divinely moved to do great things.

But many of the same people who vociferously rail against Michael Brown's death feel no compunction over terminating the life of one who has not even had the opportunity to do wrong.

I don't side with them, as I generally oppose abortion myself, but it seems clear that there's an understandable reason that many of those people don't see an inconsistency, even if I disagree with them about that.

[Sparko]

Not exactly. I am defending their right to protest, as well as the other civic requests that they have, but not all of their beliefs.

unless you are a cop, huh?

Despite being unarmed and his severely hindered by injury?

He was shot in the hand, and by his own doing. Nothing to stop him from running back at Wilson. This is what the forensics and witnesses say. You can keep denying it all you like.

Well...this is one of the reasons that I'm no longer sure how to classify my theological beliefs. That would appear to be a standstill to the discussion. But if nothing else, many of those are violent acts like murder and rape, while Brown did not murder (nor is there evidence that he ever raped), even if he maybe attempted to. Besides, Moses and Paul actually DID commit murder, but were apparently forgiven by God and were divinely moved to do great things.

Brown wasn't violent? He didn't rob a store? He didn't try to get the officer's gun and kill him? He didn't hit the officer in the jaw? What do you think Brown would have done if he had gotten Wilson's gun? Admire it?

I don't side with them, as I generally oppose abortion myself, but it seems clear that there's an understandable reason that many of those people don't see an inconsistency, even if I disagree with them about that.

What a surprise, you understand why someone would abort a baby who hasn't done anything, yet can't understand someone defending themselves from a perpetrator who has already tried to kill them.

[One Bad Pig]

Other black civilians aren't the ones who are legally supposed to be protecting them.

I came across this interesting information today:

[A]ltercations with police resulted in 449 assailant deaths last year – 123 black, 326 white. Meanwhile, over the last decade there were an average of 58,261 assaults against law enforcement personnel each year, resulting in 15,658 injuries and more than 150 deaths per year.

It appears that even those who engage in violence against police are much more likely than not to survive the encounter.

[MaxVel]

Technically, many people are protesting because they don't believe that he was charging the officer when he got shot. It's possible that they may be factually wrong, but their logic is not dumb.

Based on a conversation with my then co-worker (African-American) when the incident first happened, the actual facts of what Wilson or Brown did probably aren't being considered at all. What drove her determination that Brown had been wrongfully killed was skin colour - his brown and Wilson's white.

And my skin colour - white - meant that whatever I thought on the matter was going to be wrong because I 'couldn't understand'. As it happened, I was actually better informed than her on what had happened - but no matter, white=wrong.