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My Fear With Houston

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  • My Fear With Houston

    The church can be a powerful force, but it will have to actually fight. http://deeperwaters.wordpress.com/20...-with-houston/

  • #2
    Nit to pick...

    Originally posted by Nick
    When Duck Dynasty was cancelled,
    A&E didn't try to cancel Duck Dynasty, only to suspend Phil.
    That's what
    - She

    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
    - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
    Stephen R. Donaldson

    Comment


    • #3
      I can fix that.

      Comment


      • #4
        I find the reply from Claire typical of uneducated and emotion-based believers. It is really sad to see...
        That's what
        - She

        Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
        - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

        I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
        Stephen R. Donaldson

        Comment


        • #5
          Claire is an example of why we're losing the culture war.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
            I find the reply from Claire typical of uneducated and emotion-based believers. It is really sad to see...
            Yeah, I'd have to agree with that too. Sex gets people into plenty of trouble, so that is caring for their needs too.
            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View Post
              Claire is an example of why we're losing the culture war.
              Claire isn't on our side.
              "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

              There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

              Comment


              • #8
                That doesn't surprise me either, but unfortunately there are people who call themselves Christians who have the attitude she showed.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View Post
                  That doesn't surprise me either, but unfortunately there are people who call themselves Christians who have the attitude she showed.
                  I'm fairly certain that Claire is a person who calls herself Christian and has the attitude she shows.
                  "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
                  --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View Post
                    Claire is an example of why we're losing the culture war.
                    An issue I have, if I may:

                    Technically, I don't think Christians are supposed to be engaged in a war to win over the culture--rather, they should be engaged in a war to win over people's souls. It ought to be a war of love, motivated by deep care for our fellow human beings, a love that equals the love we have for ourselves. And frankly, the church has fallen well short of this. A common sentiment I've seen from people who happen to be gay is that what they ultimately resent about the traditional Christian side is being treated more as issues than as people. They report being made to feel neglected, marginalized, dehumanized, sensing that Christians are more concerned with fighting for the correctness of traditional Bible interpretations than with fighting for their souls. Clearly, this is not the impression that the church should want people to receive.

                    So with that in mind, I don't think the church's biggest issue is related to people not doing anything, but rather with doing things the wrong way, with the wrong approach and tone. That, I believe, is what people who oppose the traditional Christian movements are ultimately opposing--not Christianity itself. You mentioned the backlash over Phil Robertson's comments, but I'm sure you're also aware that Pope Francis, despite holding a position that isn't much different from Robertson's, has not been condemned by the rest of the world. In fact, he's been widely appreciated and celebrated. I believe the reason for this is what his approach indicated about him. When Robertson was asked about gay people, his answer was:
                    "It seems like, to me, a vagina—as a man—would be more desirable than a man’s anus. That’s just me. I’m just thinking: There’s more there! She’s got more to offer. I mean, come on, dudes! You know what I’m saying? But hey, sin: It’s not logical, my man. It’s just not logical."


                    On the other hand, Pope Francis said the following:
                    "If they accept the Lord and have goodwill, who am I to judge them? They shouldn't be marginalized. The tendency (to homosexuality) is not the problem ... they're our brothers."


                    When Phil Robertson hears the phrase "gay people," he apparently focuses primarily on the first part--"gay." When Pope Francis hears that phrase, he apparently focuses primarily on the second part--"people." Pope Francis gives the impression that he cares about people's souls, precisely what he's commanded to do. Phil Robertson gives the impression that he cares primarily about the issue of homosexuality and is reducing people to that. It's not the church's battle that's an issue so much as its strategy.
                    Learn to do right; seek justice. Defend the oppressed. Take up the cause of the fatherless; plead the case of the widow.--Isaiah 1:17

                    I don't think that all forms o[f] slavery are inherently immoral.--seer

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View Post
                      Claire is an example of why we're losing the culture war.
                      You’re losing the “culture war”, as you always do and always will, because you are out of step with changing cultural mores.
                      “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                        You’re losing the “culture war”, as you always do and always will, because you are out of step with changing deteriorating cultural mores.
                        FIFY n/c
                        That's what
                        - She

                        Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                        - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                        I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                        Stephen R. Donaldson

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by square_peg View Post
                          On the other hand, Pope Francis said the following:
                          "If they accept the Lord and have goodwill, who am I to judge them? They shouldn't be marginalized. The tendency (to homosexuality) is not the problem ... they're our brothers."


                          When Phil Robertson hears the phrase "gay people," he apparently focuses primarily on the first part--"gay." When Pope Francis hears that phrase, he apparently focuses primarily on the second part--"people." Pope Francis gives the impression that he cares about people's souls, precisely what he's commanded to do. Phil Robertson gives the impression that he cares primarily about the issue of homosexuality and is reducing people to that. It's not the church's battle that's an issue so much as its strategy.
                          It's funny how well Catholicism was doing when the popes weren't anything like Pope Francis and how poorly it's doing now that the pope is Pope Francis. It's also funny how liberal churches die out in record time. That's because the people who cheered for Francis's comments weren't Christians or even sympathetic to Christianity, they were western liberals (which is not, last I checked, the world) and the most virulently anti-Christian people this side of ISIS.
                          Last edited by Darth Executor; 10-28-2014, 02:09 PM.
                          "As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12

                          There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                            FIFY n/c

                            No. The Evangelical Right is losing the “culture war” because it is out of step with changing cultural values, namely the increasing demand for equal civil rights for all citizens regardless of race, colour, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or national origin. It is no longer acceptable to discriminate against particular segments of society based upon the personal beliefs of some. Consequently, “Evangelicalism as we knew it in the 20th century is disintegrating”… “Evangelicals must accept that our beliefs are now in conflict with the mainstream culture”.

                            http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/16/op...ted%3Dall&_r=0
                            “He felt that his whole life was a kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.” - Douglas Adams.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Tassman View Post
                              You’re losing the “culture war”, as you always do and always will, because you are out of step with changing cultural mores.
                              Not really, that's more or less an appeal to popularity. If cultural mores became that most people wanted to kill all atheists, that wouldn't make it the correct position would it.

                              Without violence, the only way anyone can win is to have a better rational argument, and that's what Christians usually lack since they most often rely on an appeals to emotion: fear of punishment by God, shame that it's not natural, etc. Even Nick's article kind of does it to Christians: stand up and fight you cowards! Well how, unless you go out and beat up gays? What persuasive arguments can the Right use, other than yammering on like a hillbilly that it ain't natural and God don't like it? Nobody cares about all that.

                              I'm personally neutral, but if Christians want to change what others are doing they need to learn how to be smarter, not more self-righteous, when interacting with the opposition.

                              Comment

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