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The Christian Who Cried Pagan

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  • The Christian Who Cried Pagan

    Is there a danger to overplaying the pagan card? http://deeperwaters.wordpress.com/20...o-cried-pagan/

  • #2
    I noticed this when you did your review of Rethinking Hell. You stated then that you were wary of the claim that something was influenced by Greek philosophy, and this post provides a context that makes that viewpoint clearer. (I do still maintain that Greek philosophy did impact Christian views of immortality of the soul and moved them away from 1 Timothy 6:16, but something like philosophy obviously seems like stronger ground than a lot of the general cultural examples you provide here.)

    I like the example provides of Ouija boards. I have heard accounts of them being spiritually dangerous and am very wary of them. However, as you say, people won't listen if Christians claim that everything under the sun is evil.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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    • #3
      Eh, there is zero reference to Christianity in today's Hallowe'en celebrations. Even at my old church's "Harvest party" the only thing 'Christian' was that it took place in the church's gym. At best, it is purely secular; at worst, it is overtly pagan/satanic. There's nothing religious in dressing up in costume and getting candy. OTOH, I think it's safe to say that more occult activity happens on that night than any other night.
      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. St. John Chrysostom

      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
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      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

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      • #4
        In Detroit, they have a thing called Devil's Night where teenagers commit arson around Halloween (I don't remember if it's the same night). I don't know that I'd make a spiritual connection but it does come from the idea/association of evil.
        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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        • #5
          Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
          I like the example provides of Ouija boards. I have heard accounts of them being spiritually dangerous and am very wary of them. However, as you say, people won't listen if Christians claim that everything under the sun is evil.
          I've also heard accounts of Harry Potter and Dungeons & Dragons being "spiritually dangerous." In fact, I've heard the same anecdotes about hearing screams from the board or books when they are burned for all of these, and a great deal more things besides.

          Honestly, I can understand why a Christian would want to avoid Ouija boards, due to OT proscriptions against mediation with the dead; however, it just comes off as silly when people attempt to claim that Hasbro is a Satanic organization attempting to corrupt our youth because they manufacture Ouija and sell it as a board game. I think this latter part clearly falls in line with the rest of the Pagan Paranoia that Nick discusses in his article.
          "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
          --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
            I've also heard accounts of Harry Potter and Dungeons & Dragons being "spiritually dangerous." In fact, I've heard the same anecdotes about hearing screams from the board or books when they are burned for all of these, and a great deal more things besides.

            Honestly, I can understand why a Christian would want to avoid Ouija boards, due to OT proscriptions against mediation with the dead; however, it just comes off as silly when people attempt to claim that Hasbro is a Satanic organization attempting to corrupt our youth because they manufacture Ouija and sell it as a board game. I think this latter part clearly falls in line with the rest of the Pagan Paranoia that Nick discusses in his article.
            I don't think there's anything here I'd disagree with.
            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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            • #7
              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
              I don't think there's anything here I'd disagree with.
              Do remember this, when you have had experiences with demonic entities, it can very easily make you paranoid.*

              *Yes, I have had such experiences, no I don't agree with people "crying wolf" on the subject. I just think that we need to be fair to those who have been through quite horrifying things.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                Do remember this, when you have had experiences with demonic entities, it can very easily make you paranoid.*

                *Yes, I have had such experiences, no I don't agree with people "crying wolf" on the subject. I just think that we need to be fair to those who have been through quite horrifying things.
                My reading of his post was along the lines of more extreme conspiracy theories, sort of like the American Family Association claiming that Disney goes out of its way to put subliminal messages in its movies promoting homosexuality.
                "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                Comment


                • #9
                  There are a remarkable number of pagan practices between October 31st and November 2nd. First the Harvesters festival, or in Celtic Neopaganism is called Samhain. its origin is a Gaelic festival marking the end of the harvest season and the beginning of winter or the "darker half" of the year. It was generally a time to bring in the harvest, mark a years end, and remember the dead. however the Hispanic Dia de los meurtos is closer associated with the American "halloween" or the "day of the dead" runs seemingly back to the Aztec culture. Currently Mexican women dress up and use private altars leaving sugar skulls, marigolds, and the favorite food and beverages of the deceased. The aztec festival does have pagan goddess associations. In some parts of the country children may dress up and ask for small gifts of money or candy.
                  There are similar festivals in Asia and Africa.

                  While modern halloween has very little to do with Gaelic paganism, it appears to be a mish mash of pagan cultures. In neopaganism they believe the veil between our world and the world of the dead becomes incredibly thin. For a Christian to exhibit caution is certainly warranted, however there is no harm in allowing a child to attend church festivals to celebrate bringing in the harvest and allowing them a little too much chocolate either.
                  A happy family is but an earlier heaven.
                  George Bernard Shaw

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                    My reading of his post was along the lines of more extreme conspiracy theories, sort of like the American Family Association claiming that Disney goes out of its way to put subliminal messages in its movies promoting homosexuality.
                    Paranoia can lead you to believing everyone's out to get you. So, I think that in some cases, this would still apply. You don't think clearly when you're paranoid, and it can often last a very long time.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                      Paranoia can lead you to believing everyone's out to get you. So, I think that in some cases, this would still apply. You don't think clearly when you're paranoid, and it can often last a very long time.
                      I don't understand how this fits in to what you're saying; can you reword?
                      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                        I don't understand how this fits in to what you're saying; can you reword?
                        I'm saying that when you've had really bad experiences(demonic experiences just compound the problem, as they can be traumatic in ways you just can't normally experience), it can make you paranoid. This is true of people who just buy into the conspiracy theories, and I suspect in some cases is true for those who "invent" them.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                          I'm saying that when you've had really bad experiences(demonic experiences just compound the problem, as they can be traumatic in ways you just can't normally experience), it can make you paranoid. This is true of people who just buy into the conspiracy theories, and I suspect in some cases is true for those who "invent" them.
                          Ah. Well, I would say that even if we are understanding of why people believe these things, we shouldn't go out of our way to promote them unless we are confident in them.

                          I sort of suspect I've drawn this off topic from AP's post. I think he was more thinking along the lines of people who think Christmas trees and wedding rings are pagan, or that Midas mufflers are evil because the name comes from Greek mythology.
                          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                            Ah. Well, I would say that even if we are understanding of why people believe these things, we shouldn't go out of our way to promote them unless we are confident in them.
                            Well yeah.

                            I sort of suspect I've drawn this off topic from AP's post. I think he was more thinking along the lines of people who think Christmas trees and wedding rings are pagan, or that Midas mufflers are evil because the name comes from Greek mythology.
                            Well, I think it applies to at least some of them too.

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