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Upcoming Deeper Waters Debate

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  • Upcoming Deeper Waters Debate

    For all interested, I will be debating on November 20th Ken Humphreys of Jesusneverexisted.com on if Jesus existed or not. We will be debating on The Mind Renewed, a Christian apologetics podcast hosted by Julian Charles in the U.K. Please be in prayer for me in this debate that it will go where and the audience will see the strong weaknesses of Christ-mythicism.

  • #2
    "Strong weaknesses"? A group of weaknesses and another group, the former being stronger than the other?
    The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

    [T]he truth Im after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View Post
      For all interested, I will be debating on November 20th Ken Humphreys of Jesusneverexisted.com on if Jesus existed or not. We will be debating on The Mind Renewed, a Christian apologetics podcast hosted by Julian Charles in the U.K. Please be in prayer for me in this debate that it will go where and the audience will see the strong weaknesses of Christ-mythicism.
      Website, for anyone interested: http://themindrenewed.com/

      I'll certainly give it a listen. It'll be interesting to see if Humphreys has any mythicist arguments with which I am not familiar, or if Nick's defense of historicity is greatly different from the way I've argued for it.
      "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
      --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
        "Strong weaknesses"? A group of weaknesses and another group, the former being stronger than the other?
        I mean that the Christ-myth position is unusually weak. It's one of the flimsiest you can hold.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Boxing Pythagoras View Post
          Website, for anyone interested: http://themindrenewed.com/

          I'll certainly give it a listen. It'll be interesting to see if Humphreys has any mythicist arguments with which I am not familiar, or if Nick's defense of historicity is greatly different from the way I've argued for it.
          If you've never heard Humphreys, he really doesn't debate well. JPH tore him apart on Unbelievable? and Humphreys was still convinced he won that one.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View Post
            If you've never heard Humphreys, he really doesn't debate well. JPH tore him apart on Unbelievable? and Humphreys was still convinced he won that one.
            No sweat, then.
            The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

            [T]he truth Im after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

            Comment


            • #7
              While I agree it's no sweat, it doesn't mean I'm being foolhardy. I'm still making sure to be reading plenty and preparing myself mentally as well. Cockiness is a weakness of Humphreys. I don't want it to be one of mine.

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              • #8
                Crush him!
                The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

                [T]he truth Im after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

                Comment


                • #9
                  This should be good.
                  "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View Post
                    If you've never heard Humphreys, he really doesn't debate well. JPH tore him apart on Unbelievable? and Humphreys was still convinced he won that one.
                    I just made an initial attempt at navigating Humphreys' website. If his thoughts are as disorganized as that, you can likely expect a gish gallop. I had no idea where to begin, or if there is a particular mythicist view which he advocates (as opposed to a conglomeration of the usual suspects).
                    "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
                    --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      cz2Nq.gif
                      That's what
                      - She

                      Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                      - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                      I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                      Stephen R. Donaldson

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                      • #12
                        I fully hope to do so. The more and more I read up on the issue, the more I am further convinced it is absolute lunacy.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View Post
                          I fully hope to do so. The more and more I read up on the issue, the more I am further convinced it is absolute lunacy.
                          At the popular level, I find that it is intensely fueled by people who don't understand the difference between historical Jesus research and simply taking the gospels at face value. The problem is that such people tend to think the historicity of the New Testament is a binary prospect: either the whole thing is literally factual, or else the whole thing should be discarded from historical research.

                          At the scholarly level, I don't think Carrier's and Price's particular mythicist hypotheses are "absolute lunacy," but I would certainly classify them as being unreasonably speculative. Price's work tends to rely on ideas regarding the dating and authorship of the NT texts which are not really supported by the prevailing scholarship. Carrier's formulation (though, I admit that I haven't gotten his latest book, yet, so I'm basing this on previous writings I've read of his) tends to require some fairly eisegetical reading of his source documents.

                          That is, of course, not to say that the lunatic fringe mythicists are themselves a myth. There are certainly a number of pseudo-scholars and anti-theists who have latched onto mythicism with a fairly zealous fervor, as if its promulgation will spell the downfall of that oh-so-hated Christianity. Of course, it is the lunacy of people like this, combined with the apparent scholarship of people like Carrier and Price, which leads to popular-level mythicism, so perhaps your point is fair, after all...
                          "[Mathematics] is the revealer of every genuine truth, for it knows every hidden secret, and bears the key to every subtlety of letters; whoever, then, has the effrontery to pursue physics while neglecting mathematics should know from the start he will never make his entry through the portals of wisdom."
                          --Thomas Bradwardine, De Continuo (c. 1325)

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