Announcement

Collapse

Deeper Waters Forum Guidelines

Notice – The ministries featured in this section of TheologyWeb are guests of this site and in some cases not bargaining for the rough and tumble world of debate forums, though sometimes they are. Additionally, this area is frequented and highlighted for guests who also very often are not acclimated to debate fora. As such, the rules of conduct here will be more strict than in the general forum. This will be something within the discretion of the Moderators and the Ministry Representative, but we simply ask that you conduct yourselves in a manner considerate of the fact that these ministries are our invited guests. You can always feel free to start a related thread in general forum without such extra restrictions. Thank you.

Deeper Waters is founded on the belief that the Christian community has long been in the shallow end of Christianity while there are treasures of the deep waiting to be discovered. Too many in the shallow end are not prepared when they go out beyond those waters and are quickly devoured by sharks. We wish to aid Christians to equip them to navigate the deeper waters of the ocean of truth and come up with treasure in the end.

We also wish to give special aid to those often neglected, that is, the disabled community. This is especially so since our founders are both on the autism spectrum and have a special desire to reach those on that spectrum. While they are a special emphasis, we seek to help others with any disability realize that God can use them and that they are as the Psalmist says, fearfully and wonderfully made.

General TheologyWeb forum rules: here.
See more
See less

Is Christianity meant to Control?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Is Christianity meant to Control?

    This is a thread for someone who contacted me on Facebook who goes by the name Josephus with his idea that Christianity was made by the Romans to control the masses, at least that's what I gather the idea is. I'll leave it to him to defend it.

  • #2
    Considering Christianity went against just about every social norm imaginable among the Romans, I'm very curious what kind of evidence this guy is presenting.
    "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

    Comment


    • #3
      The Romans did create a religion to try to control the masses. They called it emperor worship, and not a few Christians were executed for refusing to engage in it. I also wonder how this fellow thinks that narrative can be turned on its head.
      Don't call it a comeback. It's a riposte.

      Comment


      • #4
        "Neighbor, how long has it been since you’ve had a big, thick, steaming bowl of Wolf Brand Chili?”

        Comment


        • #5
          Thank you my friend ApologiaPhoenix for inviting me to this forum I would like to present my evidence which is probably not good enough for most of you but for me it was convincing enough to deconvert from Christianity after a full lifetime of faith in catholic, protestant and even some orthodox churches, which I found quite refreshing! When I first heard about the Roman strategy to weaken the messianic movement by replacing their militant messiah with a turn the other cheek stoic taxpaying pacifist I didnt want to beleive it and it took a full 18 months for me to get up the courage to seriously look into the thesis I was presented after 18 months of running from this information I decided to face the evidence head on and let truth win the day! after several days of intense study of these codes and parallels in josephus books to my horror the code became crystal clear and my faith jesus was seriously wounded I continued to study and pray and cry and seek the truth and the code only became clearer finally I began writing my exit letter to my church and friends and strted emailing them a short letter about my feelings that letter evolved into my blogsite which is now a published kindle book my 1st and im no writer I just wanted to explain my findings to my freinds and family initially and then my nephew said i should write a book! so here it is a sample of several chapters with enough evidence for an open minded person to get serious and look into this for real thank you and please know that this work is ongoing and not complete or professionally edited yet so cut me some slack! peace and light http://thejosephusmirrorcode.blogspot.com/

          Comment


          • #6
            So the Romans tortured people to death for trying to advance Christianity, which they created to control the masses? Something seems off...

            Comment


            • #7
              Okay. Just started going through and won't get through all of it tonight so let's start with this first question.

              You have Jesus dying in 33 A.D. and then Josephus mentioning him in 94 A.D. and so that's a mysterious 61 year-gap for the first non-blblical reference to Jesus.

              Well I question that it's the first non-biblical one, but let's assume that it is.

              Why is that gap mysterious?

              Comment


              • #8
                Okay. You say there were 30 famous writers living in Israel at the time who never mentioned Jesus.

                Could you tell me who these famous writers were?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Looking ahead, I see you have something on Mithraism.

                  Could you also tell the teachings of Mithraism and your source for them?

                  Any writings of the Mithraists would be great!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You mention a herophile. Do you have a copy of her writings or a quotation of her writings from an ancient source?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Okay. Finished it.

                      So I also want to know, who told you Joseph Atwill was a Biblical scholar? He's not. His work has never passed peer-review and it never would. Also, Carrier is not a highly respected scholar either. He's only popular on the internet and amongst those who are uninformed on these matters.

                      I hope you have more evidence than what you've given. I haven't seen anything to make me blink thus far.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I think the 61 year gap is pretty mysterious because jesus was so famous all the books of the world couldnt contain all he did according to john 21:25 and the crowds pressed and thronged him The mysterious question of a 61 year gap between the crucifixion of Jesus Christ and any official historical reference about him and his followers is the 1st question everyone should be asking, and this 61 year gap makes Christianity completely unreliable in my opinion.

                        Over 30+ philosophers, and historians actively writing and recording details and newsworthy information in Judea/Israel during Jesus lifetime make NO mention, not a single word of this healer and miracle worker that feeds thousands and raises the dead or is raised from the dead.

                        None of this makes it into the historical record of any living scribe, writer or historian in this heavily populated 90 square mile trade route known as the "Main Crossroads" of the Ancient world.

                        Surely someone must have written something?

                        But NO! There isn't a single reference until 94 AD, and from all the people it could have come from, it came from (Titus Flavius Josephus) the Jewish traitor and puppet stooge for the Romans!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Josephus View Post
                          I think the 61 year gap is pretty mysterious because jesus was so famous all the books of the world couldnt contain all he did according to john 21:25 and the crowds pressed and thronged him The mysterious question of a 61 year gap between the crucifixion of Jesus Christ and any official historical reference about him and his followers is the 1st question everyone should be asking, and this 61 year gap makes Christianity completely unreliable in my opinion.
                          No. Jesus was not famous as you say. Jesus was popular when he came through the area but that's because anyone passing through would be big news and would draw out a crowd for the people.

                          Over 30+ philosophers, and historians actively writing and recording details and newsworthy information in Judea/Israel during Jesus lifetime make NO mention, not a single word of this healer and miracle worker that feeds thousands and raises the dead or is raised from the dead.
                          Yeah yeah. I heard the claim the first time. Who were these 30+ philosophers? Please tell me you're not using Remsburg's list. We've gone over that a number of times here.

                          None of this makes it into the historical record of any living scribe, writer or historian in this heavily populated 90 square mile trade route known as the "Main Crossroads" of the Ancient world.

                          Surely someone must have written something?
                          There was a general named Hannibal who crossed the Alps in the Punic War and nearly conquered the Roman Empire, the most powerful empire at the time!

                          How many of his contemporaries wrote about him?

                          But NO! There isn't a single reference until 94 AD, and from all the people it could have come from, it came from (Titus Flavius Josephus) the Jewish traitor and puppet stooge for the Romans!
                          Actually, there are numerous references. Those are the Gospels and the epistles. In fact, 1st Clement could be dated earlier than Josephus which would be another reference. You say these are a conflict of interest, but historians don't see that. They still see some items of truth in these accounts. Note that rabbis did not write about themselves or write their teachings. They left this for their student. Note also the culture was an oral culture. Written testimony was not the way to spread a message. It was to use the oral tradition. See Walton and Sandy, The Lost World of Scripture.

                          Got anything more because thus far, you're only convincing me you don't really know much about history and how to study it.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Theres 15 chapters in the book I plan on adding more and of course a mountain of references is needed im aware of the deficiancies and my time is limited and im getting very little help and i type with one finger so give me a few weeks to get better prepared i will send you a personal link to my full book you dont have to buy it i will send you an email with the file. Do i have your email bro?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              he fed 5000 people with a few loaves and fishes he rose from the dead it says his fame spread throughout the region read the new testament its loaded with these references

                              Comment

                              Related Threads

                              Collapse

                              Topics Statistics Last Post
                              Started by Apologiaphoenix, Yesterday, 10:10 AM
                              1 response
                              22 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Hypatia_Alexandria  
                              Started by Apologiaphoenix, 12-02-2020, 05:18 PM
                              3 responses
                              37 views
                              2 likes
                              Last Post ReformedApologist  
                              Started by Apologiaphoenix, 12-01-2020, 10:26 AM
                              0 responses
                              10 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Apologiaphoenix  
                              Started by Apologiaphoenix, 11-30-2020, 05:07 PM
                              1 response
                              14 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Faber
                              by Faber
                               
                              Started by Apologiaphoenix, 11-27-2020, 05:29 PM
                              0 responses
                              8 views
                              0 likes
                              Last Post Apologiaphoenix  
                              Working...
                              X