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The Tragedy of Christian Bookstores

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
    You're very wrong. Denying a weaker brother is as bad, if not worse, than inadvertently misleading one. No one gets it all right all the time - if ever. You (general) concentrate on following Christ and helping others where you're certain of your steps- you have no place denying someone merely because you don't think they are trying hard enough. There's a BIG difference between confronting a problem - once you're certain your own eyes are free of log jams - and telling someone they aren't a Christian because they aren't living up to your standard. Tiny fruit may not be apparent to you - but it's still fruit. Let Jesus handle the 'which sheep is Mine' thing - you worry about being the best sheep you can be.
    Wonderful, Laura, wonderful.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
      You're very wrong. Denying a weaker brother is as bad, if not worse, than inadvertently misleading one.
      It's just a census thing. The question is, what % of the world is Christian? I was trying to define for census purposes what a Christian is. And what were you doing referring to "weaker" people!?
      No one gets it all right all the time - if ever. You (general) concentrate on following Christ and helping others where you're certain of your steps- you have no place denying someone merely because you don't think they are trying hard enough. There's a BIG difference between confronting a problem - once you're certain your own eyes are free of log jams - and telling someone they aren't a Christian because they aren't living up to your standard. Tiny fruit may not be apparent to you - but it's still fruit. Let Jesus handle the 'which sheep is Mine' thing - you worry about being the best sheep you can be.
      I do want to help people. I just don't know. Maybe I am helping people on TWeb? Maybe not.


      Let's stop this census imbroglio here, OK?
      The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

      [T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
        It's just a census thing. The question is, what % of the world is Christian?
        You have an unusable definition, then.

        Originally posted by Truthseeker
        I was trying to define for census purposes what a Christian is.
        With a definition that cannot be measured?
        Originally posted by Truthseeker
        And what were you doing referring to "weaker" people!?
        Following the obvious - weaker Christians often won't seem to be 'striving' - they get in ruts, have trouble learning, get into 'dry' periods (dark night of the soul), et al - all of which can make them seem to give up or to at least stop trying. By your proposed definition, they would be excluded - as I pointed out, unfairly.


        Originally posted by Truthseeker
        I do want to help people. I just don't know. Maybe I am helping people on TWeb? Maybe not.
        Didn't doubt that you did - and you probably are. But you can't use definitions that unfairly exclude, not even the marginal Christians. Sometimes we help them with a hand - sometimes a kick in the rear; but it's case by case and not 'one size fits all'. People is messy.

        Jesus never advised taking a census of disciples - we get too caught up in numbers and lose the purpose. Help the starfish you can reach - don't get discouraged because you can't reach them all. Jesus can handle whatever you can't.

        Originally posted by Truthseeker
        Let's stop this census imbroglio here, OK?
        It was your topic.
        "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

        "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

        My Personal Blog

        My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

        Quill Sword

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        • #19
          Easy to nitpick judgment calls. This one isn't Christian. That one is. Not. Is. You then accuse me of using shifting definitions. That's why I am giving up. In fact I think I'll unsubscribe this thread. If you disagree with that decision, you can PM me.
          The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

          [T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

          Comment


          • #20
            I'm confused
            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

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            • #21
              So am I - he did define 'Christian' as "one NOT striving to be ever better a Christian" - what did he think I meant?

              "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

              "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

              My Personal Blog

              My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

              Quill Sword

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
                Easy to nitpick judgment calls. This one isn't Christian. That one is. Not. Is. You then accuse me of using shifting definitions. That's why I am giving up. In fact I think I'll unsubscribe this thread. If you disagree with that decision, you can PM me.
                Got a PM from Teal. My reply:

                [Teal explained that she called my definition "unstable" because people change.] OK, but it's someone's attitude that counts. I can't read minds, but I could look at how someone spends his time and his body language. Unfortunately, I would concede I am easy to fool.

                Further responses to the PM: My feelings were not hurt. It's just that I didn't want to spend time on endless debates, especially ones that are offtopic. Also, defending my position turned out to be rather nuance-laden. .... Who's KG, your husband? Is he a TWebber, too? (You don't have to answer those questions)
                The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

                [T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

                Comment


                • #23
                  No, not 'unstable' - un-use-able. For a definition to be used as a category in survey research it has to be uniform and quantifiable. Everyone has to easily agree that X does or does not belong in the category. But 'striving' is too subjective - it varies by degree and is difficult if not impossible for everyone to agree upon, or even determine in another person.

                  This is why census researchers usually just let people self-identify. You do get people identifying as something they aren't but you can be fairly sure most actually know what they are.

                  KG is Catholicity's husband - King's Gambit. He posted just before I did (last post of page 1).





                  So, how 'bout them Dodgers?
                  "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                  "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                  My Personal Blog

                  My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                  Quill Sword

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                    No, not 'unstable' - un-use-able. For a definition to be used as a category in survey research it has to be uniform and quantifiable. Everyone has to easily agree that X does or does not belong in the category. But 'striving' is too subjective - it varies by degree and is difficult if not impossible for everyone to agree upon, or even determine in another person.

                    This is why census researchers usually just let people self-identify. You do get people identifying as something they aren't but you can be fairly sure most actually know what they are.
                    You make a good point. But are you thinking that the world is Christian enough?
                    The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

                    [T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Apologiaphoenix View Post
                      There is a problem with our bookstores selling pablum to the flock and stunting their intellectual growth.

                      http://deeperwaters.wordpress.com/20...an-bookstores/
                      I think its rather simple...follow the money. A Christian bookstore is probably the support for its owner and family so they have to sell what makes money. A pastor may prefer a church of 20 that really knows the Bible but a church of 200 pays for a building and his salary.

                      On a different note, I find I have to more niche publishers to find the meaningful writings these days. My most recent purchases have been from Ignatius press and St. Vladimar.
                      "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                      "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Thoughtful Monk View Post
                        I think its rather simple...follow the money. A Christian bookstore is probably the support for its owner and family so they have to sell what makes money. A pastor may prefer a church of 20 that really knows the Bible but a church of 200 pays for a building and his salary.

                        On a different note, I find I have to more niche publishers to find the meaningful writings these days. My most recent purchases have been from Ignatius press and St. Vladimar.
                        The pool of potential customers could be more Christian. The owner and family could have jobs different from what they are doing. Some pastors are actually volunteers? Church could be conducted in someone's home, like it was in Acts.
                        The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

                        [T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
                          So am I - he did define 'Christian' as "one NOT striving to be ever better a Christian" - what did he think I meant?
                          I said the one should NOT be counted as Christian.

                          I didn't notice Teal's post, quoted above, until just a moment ago.
                          The greater number of laws . . . , the more thieves . . . there will be. ---- Lao-Tzu

                          [T]he truth I’m after and the truth never harmed anyone. What harms us is to persist in self-deceit and ignorance -— Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
                            I said the one should NOT be counted as Christian.

                            I didn't notice Teal's post, quoted above, until just a moment ago.
                            Dude, just stop. lol.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
                              You make a good point. But are you thinking that the world is Christian enough?
                              Not until everyone is a follower of Christ. But that may take a while.


                              Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
                              I said the one should NOT be counted as Christian.

                              I didn't notice Teal's post, quoted above, until just a moment ago.
                              Granted - I meant to say 'non-Christian'.
                              "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot

                              "Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman

                              My Personal Blog

                              My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)

                              Quill Sword

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Truthseeker View Post
                                The pool of potential customers could be more Christian. The owner and family could have jobs different from what they are doing. Some pastors are actually volunteers? Church could be conducted in someone's home, like it was in Acts.
                                All valid points. The question: is the state of Christian bookstores a cause of the lack of Christian depth or a reflection of what is taught in the churches? I'll go with the second because if you fix the people (members and church leadership alike), the bookstore will follow.
                                "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings." Hosea 6:6

                                "Theology can be an intellectual entertainment." Metropolitan Anthony Bloom

                                Comment

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