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Book Plunge: Beyond the Quest for the Historical Jesus

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  • Book Plunge: Beyond the Quest for the Historical Jesus

    Does Thomas Brodie have a case?

    The link can be found here.

    ------

    What do I think of Thomas Brodie's book published by Sheffield Phoenix? Let's plunge into the Deeper Waters and find out.

    Thomas Brodie is the rare mythicist who doesn't refer to Richard Carrier as the Alpha and Omega of Biblical scholarship and doesn't resort to the dying and rising gods ideology. Still, even by mythicist standards, his work is, well, bizarre. Brodie at times goes to lengths that even Carrier would not go to. I was asked to read this by someone who is at least open to mythicism if not a full-fledged mythicist to get my thoughts on it.

    It's not a shock that Brodie has a really fundamentalist background. Early on page 4, he tells of hearing an older Dominican say that the words in the Gospels are not the exact words of Jesus and how when Brodie heard that, his heart sank. Why? All you'd need to do is compare the exact same story in the Gospels and know we get paraphrases often. It's moderns who are obsessed with exact terminology. On top of that, Jesus likely spoke in Aramaic so His words are already a translation.

    Throughout the book, Brodie gets put in positions by students and others where he has no idea what to say and has to go back and look for some answers. Nothing wrong with looking of course, but it looks like Brodie takes the most simplistic approach he can and there's not much evidence he really wrestles with both sides of an issue. It could be because he has an exalted view of himself. He writes about how he scores high on intuition on Myers-Briggs and so he intuits these connections in his work that everyone else just misses. It never occurs to Brodie apparently that maybe he intuits nonsense and everyone else can just see it. No. The reason that Brodie's work gets rejected cannot be him after all.

    Brodie's main idea rests on imitation. He especially clings to the Elijah-Elisha narrative. Brodie says that the stories in the Gospels often look like the Elijah-Elisha narrative or they look like other Old Testament books. So let's review the chain and we will see it makes perfect sense.

    We don't have the exact words of Jesus.
    The stories in the Gospels bear similarities to Old Testament stories, particularly the Elijah-Elisha narrative.
    Therefore, Jesus never existed.

    Makes perfect sense. Right?

    Often times, it's easy to see that his parallels are contrived and Brodie will do any amount of pushing to force them onto the Gospels. Now someone could say "Well even if he does that with the Gospels, he has to deal with Paul too." No problem. Paul didn't exist. Paul is a myth and the opponents he wrote about are also myths and the epistles are all just these letters written for, well, that's a good question. It's really unclear in the book why anyone went through with this elaborate scheme.

    Dealing with the extra-Biblical references for Jesus doesn't go much better for Brodie. Early on on page 25, he says that some of these were always recognized as weak. It would be nice to know who always recognized these as weak and why, but Brodie never answers the question for us.

    When he gets to why he rejects them, he pretty much only focuses on Josephus and Tacitus and even then, it's lacking. All he needs to say for Josephus is that Josephus got his information from Scripture somehow and then Tacitus got his from Christians so neither one of these is to be trusted. Even if true, this assumes that Brodie's prior hypothesis is true.

    What is most odd to me about the whole thing is that instead of admitting the existence of one person, Brodie has to have this school in Judaism that comes together and writes these epistles and Gospels with a story they know is not historically true. The existence of one person is seen as doubtful, but an entire school we have no evidence for is not. Brodie has this school in Judaism that has ideas that are practically New Age about God being in each of us and reaching out to us and somehow, this Jewish school at the time of Jesus embraced all of this.

    Note that these Jewish thinkers had to be some of the worst writers in history in pulling this off. After all, it wasn't until about 1900 years later that someone finally came up with what it was that was really being said. It's amazing to think that to avoid the historical existence of Jesus, Brodie has to come up with a school we have no evidence for and a plot we have no evidence for and a New Agey school of Judaism that we have no evidence for.

    Brodie's book is really grasping at straws. In Acts 26:24, Festus says to Paul that he's gone crazy and his learning has driven him out of his mind. After reading this, I think these words would more accurately describe Thomas Brodie.

    In Christ,
    Nick Peters

  • #2
    I will say, that of all the mythicist theories out there, I think Brodie's the most likely.

    But, it's incredibly problematic, to say the least.

    Comment


    • #3
      Are those guys just terrified of the thought that God(the Second Person of the Trinity to be more exact) entered human history as a human baby, grew up, taught disciples, preformed miracles, died for the salvation of our souls, and rose again? And then left. Because it would have not been ideal for Jesus to stick around on Earth in a Resurrection body.
      If it weren't for the Resurrection of Jesus, we'd all be in DEEP TROUBLE!

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Christianbookworm View Post
        Are those guys just terrified of the thought that God(the Second Person of the Trinity to be more exact) entered human history as a human baby, grew up, taught disciples, preformed miracles, died for the salvation of our souls, and rose again? And then left. Because it would have not been ideal for Jesus to stick around on Earth in a Resurrection body.
        The weird thing is that Brodie is himself a Dominican Priest.

        I would argue that the vast majority of mythicists are indeed motivated by atheism.

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