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Celebrating the Season of War

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
    If some here find difficulty with syntax that is their problem. If they come across words with which they are unfamiliar there are plenty of dictionaries online.

    Not where I was educated.

    I am tempted to enquire if you have written any academic texts.

    Thank you for your honesty.

    Plenty of disabled people manage to have quite active social lives.

    My emphasis.

    You have just admitted that it was:




    As I do in yours, namely contradictory statements in the same post.

    Have you tried reading? It not only informs it also to helps extend one's vocabulary.
    I'm sure that will correct me if I'm wrong, but I read his remark "I know this is just a personal attack" as commenting upon your dig "I might suggest you "get a life"" which it appears isn't the way you took it.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • #62
      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post

      I'm sure that will correct me if I'm wrong, but I read his remark "I know this is just a personal attack" as commenting upon your dig "I might suggest you "get a life"" which it appears isn't the way you took it.
      It's rich that H_A oh so virtuously applauds Brum for his honesty while maliciously misreading him.
      Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

      Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
      sigpic
      I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
        If some here find difficulty with syntax that is their problem. If they come across words with which they are unfamiliar there are plenty of dictionaries online.
        You just complained about how communication is the point of these board, yet when I try to point out that your own methods undermine that you just blame everyone else. It is true that communication is a two way street, but you are often not holding up your own end.

        Not where I was educated.
        So you claim, your posts suggest something rather different.

        I am tempted to enquire if you have written any academic texts.
        I have not, I have however read a decent amount of them.

        Thank you for your honesty.
        That is in reference to your own "get a life", suggestion, not my own words.

        Plenty of disabled people manage to have quite active social lives.
        I have one extremely rare condition called Complex Regional Pain Syndrome* that prevents me from doing a lot more than most. I also have a rather extreme case of it. The other disability is ASD, which has made socializing rather difficult even when I wasn't restricted physically. Most of my socializing comes from internet forums and online video games.

        My emphasis.

        You have just admitted that it was:
        This is the kind of thing I'm talking about. I think most people would have understood I was referencing your comment to "get a life" under that context. My comment might be less specific, but it is not a contradiction.

        As I do in yours, namely contradictory statements in the same post.
        Um, no, I didn't. Not as specific as you would like, but it's not a contradiction.

        Have you tried reading? It not only informs it also to helps extend one's vocabulary.
        Wow this is condescending.

        I'm an avid reader, and always have been. I was reading as young as three years old, and my verbal IQ is around 125, with my overall score being 107. Of course that test was taken both while in extreme agony, and many years after my prime. While not all of the terms were retained, I have read dictionaries cover to cover in the past.

        *In my case it is no longer "regional", but has spread to my entire body due to further injuries. I don't think the name change away from Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy is useful.

        Comment


        • #64
          Originally posted by rogue06 View Post

          I'm sure that will correct me if I'm wrong, but I read his remark "I know this is just a personal attack" as commenting upon your dig "I might suggest you "get a life"" which it appears isn't the way you took it.

          Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
          It's rich that H_A oh so virtuously applauds Brum for his honesty while maliciously misreading him.
          Thanks for adding this evidence to support my claim that most people would read my post as referring to her statement, and not my own.

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post

            Thanks for adding this evidence to support my claim that most people would read my post as referring to her statement, and not my own.
            I don't think I've ever been included in "most people" before.

            I'm always still in trouble again

            "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
            "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
            "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

            Comment


            • #66
              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
              I don't think I've ever been included in "most people" before.
              A first time for everything, and I don't exactly get put in that category very often myself.

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post

                You just complained about how communication is the point of these board, yet when I try to point out that your own methods undermine that you just blame everyone else. It is true that communication is a two way street, but you are often not holding up your own end.



                So you claim, your posts suggest something rather different.



                I have not, I have however read a decent amount of them.



                That is in reference to your own "get a life", suggestion, not my own words.



                I have one extremely rare condition called Complex Regional Pain Syndrome* that prevents me from doing a lot more than most. I also have a rather extreme case of it. The other disability is ASD, which has made socializing rather difficult even when I wasn't restricted physically. Most of my socializing comes from internet forums and online video games.



                This is the kind of thing I'm talking about. I think most people would have understood I was referencing your comment to "get a life" under that context. My comment might be less specific, but it is not a contradiction.



                Um, no, I didn't. Not as specific as you would like, but it's not a contradiction.



                Wow this is condescending.

                I'm an avid reader, and always have been. I was reading as young as three years old, and my verbal IQ is around 125, with my overall score being 107. Of course that test was taken both while in extreme agony, and many years after my prime. While not all of the terms were retained, I have read dictionaries cover to cover in the past.

                *In my case it is no longer "regional", but has spread to my entire body due to further injuries. I don't think the name change away from Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy is useful.
                Your initial remarks to this thread commenced with comments pertaining to academia.

                When asked to provide evidence from academic text you supplied a video and some comments from Pinker, an article in The Atlantic, and a link to a piece of legislation [none which was precisely what I requested]

                Your comments then gradually slithered into a post that made personal remarks about me so please save me your protestations that you have not made personal remarks.

                As to your comments concerning your precocious reading abilities or your IQ [verbal or otherwise]

                Precisely whom are you trying to impress with these possible:

                attempts to seem more intelligent than you are

                "It ain't necessarily so
                The things that you're liable
                To read in the Bible
                It ain't necessarily so
                ."

                Sportin' Life
                Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                Comment


                • #68
                  Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                  From where did you obtain that little nugget of nonsense?
                  I guess it's safe to say that H_A has slithered away from her snide comment after being shown that AP was spot-on accurate.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                    Precisely whom are you trying to impress with these possible:

                    attempts to seem more intelligent than you are
                    Oh, the iron E.
                    Enter the Church and wash away your sins. For here there is a hospital and not a court of law. Do not be ashamed to enter the Church; be ashamed when you sin, but not when you repent. – St. John Chrysostom

                    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                    sigpic
                    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                    Comment


                    • #70
                      Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                      Oh, the iron E.
                      Once again, proclaiming themselves wise, they became fools.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                        Oh, the Iron E.jpg
                        FIFY n/c

                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                        Comment


                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                          Your initial remarks to this thread commenced with comments pertaining to academia.

                          When asked to provide evidence from academic text you supplied a video and some comments from Pinker, an article in The Atlantic, and a link to a piece of legislation [none which was precisely what I requested]
                          I said even among academics overly precise and strict language is seen as a barrier to communication, even among their peers. I provided evidence of just that, academics who complained about the opaqueness of other academics. That satisfies the burden of proof of my claim, even if if does not meet the burden of your incredulity The problem of using such specificity applies even more so in a less formal venue such as this.

                          You asked for an overly specific example of academics complaining about such problems in academic texts, and I don't have to play that game. It misses the forest for the trees. However I did give the name of an academic text that dealt with the issue of overly verbose and grandiose language, and how overindulging in it causes problems in communication. You have still chosen to ignore that work as "advice for students", when it was a study on how such language is perceived by others.

                          Your comments then gradually slithered into a post that made personal remarks about me so please save me your protestations that you have not made personal remarks.
                          I never said it was not a "personal remark", but that it was not intended as a personal attack. For someone who claims to value clear communication you certainly have a lot of trouble with it. Criticism=/=attack, remark=/=attack, and disagreement=/=attack.

                          As to your comments concerning your precocious reading abilities or your IQ [verbal or otherwise]

                          Precisely whom are you trying to impress with these possible:

                          attempts to seem more intelligent than you are
                          You directly attacked my intelligence with the "have you tried reading" comment, which was a personal attack. When attacked like that I am going to defend myself. It's not an attempt to "seem more intelligent" than I am, but merely to point that I am not an idiot, as your snark would suggest you believe me to be. However, I shouldn't have bothered since no evidence would ever satisfy your demands. Even if I posted screenshots of the IQ* test results you'd probably just claim they are from someone else's test, or are photoshopped.

                          To clarify, I don't actually think you are trying to seem more intelligent than you are, but I know that the level of precision you demand can be seen that way. I know just how easily it can be seen that way, because people have said the same kind of things about/to me. That I'm a "know it all", or I'm "pretentious", or "trying to seem smarter than I am". I still get remarks like that due to my adept use of language and preference for precision.

                          *107 is still within average range for an overall score. I also had around 98 for working memory and processing speed, which is below average. If I was trying to make myself seem smarter than I am I would inflate those numbers as well as my average score.

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post

                            I said even among academics overly precise and strict language is seen as a barrier to communication, even among their peers. I provided evidence of just that, academics who complained about the opaqueness of other academics. That satisfies the burden of proof of my claim, even if if does not meet the burden of your incredulity The problem of using such specificity applies even more so in a less formal venue such as this.
                            It demonstrates your reluctance to provide evidence in support of an allegation.

                            Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                            You asked for an overly specific example of academics complaining about such problems in academic texts
                            My emphasis

                            No I did not.

                            In response to this:

                            Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                            Even among academics overly strict and mechanical definitions are often frowned upon due to their tendency to obfuscate what they are saying.
                            I replied with this: [My emphasis]

                            Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post

                            Would you care to cite some examples from academic texts?


                            Given your remark concerning such texts and that:

                            Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post

                            I have however read a decent amount of them.


                            You should surely have been able to find some examples of the sort of prose with which you take issue.

                            Hence your remark in this reply:

                            and I don't have to play that game
                            .

                            Would appear to be nothing more than a diversionary tactic on your part.

                            Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                            You have still chosen to ignore that work as "advice for students", when it was a study on how such language is perceived by others.
                            I asked you for examples from academic texts, not a video, or magazine, or newspaper/website articles. And as you have yet to provide any examples from such texts of what you consider to be:

                            Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                            overly verbose and grandiose language


                            Your posts are increasingly indicative that your remarks were intended to be nothing more than personal remarks [or as you might consider them attacks] something which you consider justifies a defence.

                            Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                            I know this is just a personal attack,


                            It appears that I misread your remark and you were in fact referring to my comment [which you apparently "know" to have been such remark].

                            However, I made the suggestion that you "get a life" in response to a post from your good-self that constituted various criticisms [you might consider them to be attacks] against me.

                            You do not appear able to entertain the possibility that the post you initially made to me might have been deemed to be just such an attack as those to which you feel you have a right to defend yourself.

                            Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                            You directly attacked my intelligence with the "have you tried reading" comment, which was a personal attack.
                            To use your own words

                            It was not intended as a personal attack


                            My comment concerning reading was merely a suggestion to try something other than playing video/computer games. Reading widely extends one's knowledge, it also familiarises one with more complex or unusual prose styles, and it extends one's vocabulary.

                            Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                            When attacked like that I am going to defend myself.
                            You made a post criticising me [you might again consider such a post to be an attack] and I replied in kind. You took offence and felt you had to "defend yourself" at my comment but seem to have no issue concerning your post which elicited that reply.

                            Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                            It's not an attempt to "seem more intelligent" than I am, but merely to point that I am not an idiot, as your snark would suggest you believe me to be.
                            Once again your choice of language is noted. I employ "snark" whereas you simply defend yourself.

                            Once again, what about the posts and various remarks from yourself? You are evidently prepared to make personal remarks but are affronted when you are repaid in kind.

                            Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post
                            However, I shouldn't have bothered since no evidence would ever satisfy your demands. Even if I posted screenshots of the IQ* test results you'd probably just claim they are from someone else's test, or are photoshopped.

                            To clarify, I don't actually think you are trying to seem more intelligent than you are, but I know that the level of precision you demand can be seen that way. I know just how easily it can be seen that way, because people have said the same kind of things about/to me. That I'm a "know it all", or I'm "pretentious", or "trying to seem smarter than I am". I still get remarks like that due to my adept use of language and preference for precision.

                            *107 is still within average range for an overall score. I also had around 98 for working memory and processing speed, which is below average. If I was trying to make myself seem smarter than I am I would inflate those numbers as well as my average score.
                            With regard to all the above and your previous comments on the same subject[s] might I remind you of Rhett Butler's final remark to Scarlett?

                            However, I would suggest that this exchange has run its course and I extend the compliments of the season to you.
                            "It ain't necessarily so
                            The things that you're liable
                            To read in the Bible
                            It ain't necessarily so
                            ."

                            Sportin' Life
                            Porgy & Bess, DuBose Heyward, George & Ira Gershwin

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Hypatia_Alexandria View Post
                              It demonstrates your reluctance to provide evidence in support of an allegation.
                              What has been demonstrated is your inability to accept evidence that doesn't meet your overly specific criteria. Even then, here are some more examples. That study deals with how people with less status use more jargon at the expense of conversational clarity. In other words they use more jargon to make themselves seem more intelligent to their peers. This study deals with "Foggy Prose". This one deals with reasons to reduce or eliminate jargon. This one deals with Epistemic Gatekeeping through the choice of words, syntax, jargon etc.

                              Those examples are just the tip of the iceberg with regards to academic texts, much less the statements of academics on the subject in general. The latter of which is the primary subject.

                              My emphasis

                              No I did not.
                              You didn't use the underlined phrase verbatim(which is why I didn't use quote marks), but when you asked me for examples regarding how even academics complain about such overly precise and mechanical use of language you requested "academic texts", which is overly specific when "academic texts" are not the only source of such complaints. The only examples I have to give to prove my point is academics complaining about such things regardless of medium. Despite not needing to give more evidence than what is required of my assertion I have done so anyway.

                              In response to this:



                              I replied with this: [My emphasis]



                              Given your remark concerning such texts and that:
                              I was answering your question of whether or not I had written an academic texts, and replying that in general I have read many academic texts over the years, and not specifically on the topic at hand. I have seen the complaint in academic texts, and the same opinion be expressed by many academics in many forms of media.

                              My remark regarding academics frowning on overly verbose and grandiose language was not directed at "academic texts" only, nor specifying them. It was about academics themselves seeing such things as hampering effective communication. You are the one who went into overly specific territory regarding academic texts, and I decided against limiting the evidence to only that, because it restricts what is required unnecessarily.

                              You should surely have been able to find some examples of the sort of prose with which you take issue.
                              I did, including an academic text, but you handwaved away all examples because they did not meet your overly specific demands. I also have given more in this post. I won't be giving more because it is unlikely you will accept any amount of evidence on the matter even if it does

                              Hence your remark in this reply:

                              and I don't have to play that game
                              .

                              Would appear to be nothing more than a diversionary tactic on your part.
                              It's not a diversionary tactic, just an unwillingness to needlessly limit myself on evidence that is pertinent to the discussion.

                              I asked you for examples from academic texts, not a video, or magazine, or newspaper/website articles. And as you have yet to provide any examples from such texts of what you consider to be:
                              Yes, and doing so is an overly specific requirement given the claim I made. All I need to show the claim valid is to have academics, regardless of medium, complain about overly precise, verbose, and jargon filled language at the expense of clarity.

                              Your posts are increasingly indicative that your remarks were intended to be nothing more than personal remarks [or as you might consider them attacks] something which you consider justifies a defence.

                              It appears that I misread your remark and you were in fact referring to my comment [which you apparently "know" to have been such remark].
                              I know "get a life" is a personal attack, because that is how it is always meant. The part of my post that I considered a defense was specifically the aspect about how I have always been an avid reader. And I will admit to misreading your intent on the "have you tried reading" comment. However, it came right after the "get a life", and insults like that alongside such suggestions have been further attempts at denigration every time I have seen them.

                              There is also a difference between a direct personal insult, and a remark that happens to concern what a person is doing.

                              However, I made the suggestion that you "get a life" in response to a post from your good-self that constituted various criticisms [you might consider them to be attacks] against me.

                              You do not appear able to entertain the possibility that the post you initially made to me might have been deemed to be just such an attack as those to which you feel you have a right to defend yourself.
                              I did consider such a possibility, which is why I was very careful in how I worded my posts. Particularly in regard to statements like how excessivesy precise language can easily be seen as an attempt to seem smarter than you are, or the possibilities that I could think of offhand meaning there are likely more possibilities, and that I am open to them. I also stated that there is nothing wrong with being precise with language in and of itself, and that I myself have fallen into that tendency to my own detriment. Most of the statements you have taken as personal attacks apply to my own preferences regarding word use as well which I have freely admitted. Despite our intentions to be as precise and detailed as possible, we unintentionally obfuscate our meanings to most people.

                              To use your own words

                              It was not intended as a personal attack


                              My comment concerning reading was merely a suggestion to try something other than playing video/computer games. Reading widely extends one's knowledge, it also familiarises one with more complex or unusual prose styles, and it extends one's vocabulary.
                              Your preceding "defense" was retaliatory, mine was not. I understand why a person might retaliate if they deem themselves under attack, but I had been doing what I could not to resort to that. I did fail later, so I apologize. Reading is good for those things, but it can't replace socializing. Which is something you can't do by merely reading books. You can however do so online with video games and message boards. You might not realize this, but there are entire genres of video games which are mostly, or exclusively text.

                              You made a post criticising me [you might again consider such a post to be an attack] and I replied in kind. You took offence and felt you had to "defend yourself" at my comment but seem to have no issue concerning your post which elicited that reply.

                              Once again your choice of language is noted. I employ "snark" whereas you simply defend yourself.
                              You jumped to personal attacks at a perceived slight, but for most of this exchange I have been trying to be as careful and detailed as possible while at the same time not trying to attack you as a person. "Get a life" is a well known snarky personal attack. Stating that I have in fact been reading since I was young is not in any way an attack on you. One is retaliatory for a perceived slight, the other is not.

                              Again, I will apologize for this line. "However, I shouldn't have bothered since no evidence would ever satisfy your demands. Even if I posted screenshots of the IQ* test results you'd probably just claim they are from someone else's test, or are photoshopped", that one was undeserved and snarky.

                              Once again, what about the posts and various remarks from yourself? You are evidently prepared to make personal remarks but are affronted when you are repaid in kind.
                              I don't mind personal remarks, constructive criticism is almost always very personal to the criticized, but it is one of the many ways we can grow and improve as people. Well known insults are another matter. I did not resort to the latter, even if I did say something I do regret.

                              With regard to all the above and your previous comments on the same subject[s] might I remind you of Rhett Butler's final remark to Scarlett?
                              In the interest of conciliation I will withdraw the part about you not accepting any evidence, and that I shouldn't have bothered before. The part after that I wholeheartedly meant. I do not think you are trying to troll, and I don't think you are trying to sound smarter than you really are. I do think you are trying to be precise and detailed, and that this is interfering with communication, something with which I am all too familiar.

                              However, I would suggest that this exchange has run its course and I extend the compliments of the season to you.
                              It's very hard to take this sentence seriously when followed by the one preceding it. However, I will do that anyway, and offer the same in return. Merry Christmas, and a Happy New Year Hypatia.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post

                                What has been demonstrated is your inability to accept evidence that doesn't meet your overly specific criteria. Even then, here are some more examples. That study deals with how people with less status use more jargon at the expense of conversational clarity. In other words they use more jargon to make themselves seem more intelligent to their peers. This study deals with "Foggy Prose". This one deals with reasons to reduce or eliminate jargon. This one deals with Epistemic Gatekeeping through the choice of words, syntax, jargon etc.
                                There's a thread around here regarding folks who try to impress using fifty cent words.


                                I'm always still in trouble again

                                "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                                "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                                "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                                Comment

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