Announcement

Collapse

Deeper Waters Forum Guidelines

Notice – The ministries featured in this section of TheologyWeb are guests of this site and in some cases not bargaining for the rough and tumble world of debate forums, though sometimes they are. Additionally, this area is frequented and highlighted for guests who also very often are not acclimated to debate fora. As such, the rules of conduct here will be more strict than in the general forum. This will be something within the discretion of the Moderators and the Ministry Representative, but we simply ask that you conduct yourselves in a manner considerate of the fact that these ministries are our invited guests. You can always feel free to start a related thread in general forum without such extra restrictions. Thank you.

Deeper Waters is founded on the belief that the Christian community has long been in the shallow end of Christianity while there are treasures of the deep waiting to be discovered. Too many in the shallow end are not prepared when they go out beyond those waters and are quickly devoured by sharks. We wish to aid Christians to equip them to navigate the deeper waters of the ocean of truth and come up with treasure in the end.

We also wish to give special aid to those often neglected, that is, the disabled community. This is especially so since our founders are both on the autism spectrum and have a special desire to reach those on that spectrum. While they are a special emphasis, we seek to help others with any disability realize that God can use them and that they are as the Psalmist says, fearfully and wonderfully made.

General TheologyWeb forum rules: here.
See more
See less

The Pastor As Scholar

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #46
    Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

    Something the attorney discussed with me in detail.



    It really has, and one of the things the attorney pointed out was that, just 5 years ago, none of us would have ever imagined that 'the church' would have to provide specific definitions on "man" and "woman". So the language has to be written in such a way as to anticipate the world going mad.

    Beside our faith and practice statements, the Baptist Faith & Message, and our policies on marriage and family, they provide that....

    Well, here it is....
    • The black is "as is"
    • The red is being removed, because we have no way of knowing what a future version of the BF&M would say. Should it be made more relevant to the current culture war environment, we can always opt to amend our constitution to address that.
    • The green is added to what we already had.

    We confirm our belief in and adopt as our Statement of Faith, The Baptist Faith and Message 2000, adopted by the Southern Baptist Convention, or any subsequent revision of The Baptist Faith and Message 2000.
    We also believe that God wonderfully and immutably creates each person as male or female. These two distinct, complementary sexes together reflect the image and nature of God (Gen. 1:26-27). Rejection of one’s biological sex is a rejection of the image of God within that person.
    Further, we believe the term “marriage” has only one meaning: the uniting of one man and one woman in a single, exclusive union, as delineated in Scripture (Gen. 2:18-25).
    The statement of faith does not exhaust the extent of our beliefs. The Bible itself, as the inspired and infallible Word of God that speaks with final authority concerning truth, morality, and the proper conduct of mankind, is the sole and final source of all that we believe. For purposes of ________________ Church’s faith, doctrine, practice, policy, and discipline, our Pastor, in consultation with our Deacon Elder Ministry Team, is ___________'s final interpretive authority on the Bible’s application.

    Yes, we can still be sued, but our legal counsel is confident in defending us as long as we clearly spell out what it is we believe, and that final line makes it clear that what our statement of faith says is what we mean it to say.
    Hopefully your attorney is right, and hopefully the building backlash* against the Gender Identity movement will be enough to return some sanity to the world, at least until the pendulum swings back the other way.

    *I really hope that doesn't end up getting messy. The polarization and division are at an all time high, and the damage caused by this issue is very hard to calculate. Going too far in pushing back will just make the polarization worse.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View Post

      Hopefully your attorney is right, and hopefully the building backlash* against the Gender Identity movement will be enough to return some sanity to the world, at least until the pendulum swings back the other way.

      *I really hope that doesn't end up getting messy. The polarization and division are at an all time high, and the damage caused by this issue is very hard to calculate. Going too far in pushing back will just make the polarization worse.
      Fortunately, we are pretty much isolated from that in a very conservative county in Texas, but it has actually surfaced in bigger towns near us.
      The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by NorrinRadd View Post
        About virgin/maiden:

        The NET notes on Matt. 1:23 --


        A quotation from Isa 7:14. It is unclear whether the author is citing the MT or the LXX. The use of the word παρθένος (parthenos, “virgin”) may be due to its occurrence in the LXX, but it is also possible that it is the author’s translation of the Hebrew term עַלְמָה (’almah, “young woman”). The second phrase of the quotation is modified slightly from its original context; both the MT and LXX have a second person singular verb, but here the quotation has a third person plural verb form. The spelling of the name here (Emmanuel) differs from the spelling of the name in the OT (Immanuel) because of a different leading vowel in the respective Greek and Hebrew words. In the original context, this passage pointed to a child who would be born during the time of Ahaz as proof that the military alliance of Syria and Israel against Judah would fail. Within Isaiah’s subsequent prophecies this promise was ultimately applied to the future Davidic king who would one day rule over the nation.


        The NET notes on Isa. 7:14:

        ln Traditionally the virgin, though the Hebrew term is not that specific; the LXX translated the term using the more specific Greek term parthenos which does mean “virgin” in a technical sense (and which is used in Matt 1:23 where this verse is quoted in the New Testament).


        and

        tn Traditionally, “virgin.” Because this verse from Isaiah is quoted in Matt 1:23 in connection with Jesus’ birth, the Isaiah passage has been regarded since the earliest Christian times as a prophecy of Christ’s virgin birth. Much debate has taken place over the best way to translate this Hebrew term, although ultimately one’s view of the doctrine of the virgin birth of Christ is unaffected. Though the Hebrew word used here (עַלְמָה, ʿalmah) can sometimes refer to a woman who is a virgin (Gen 24:43), it does not carry this meaning inherently. The word is simply the feminine form of the corresponding masculine noun עֶלֶם (ʿelem, “young man”; cf. 1 Sam 17:56; 20:22). The Aramaic and Ugaritic cognate terms are both used of women who are not virgins. The word seems to pertain to age, not sexual experience, and would normally be translated “young woman.” The LXX translator(s) who later translated the Book of Isaiah into Greek sometime between the second and first century B.C., however, rendered the Hebrew term by the more specific Greek word παρθένος (parthenos), which does mean “virgin” in a technical sense. This is the Greek term that also appears in the citation of Isa 7:14 in Matt 1:23. Therefore, regardless of the meaning of the term in the OT context, in the NT Matthew’s usage of the Greek term παρθένος clearly indicates that from his perspective a virgin birth has taken place.
        ったく

        Almah is a young woman, LXX parthenos is not particularly indicative of virginity. The passage does not say "the young woman will be (or, is) pregnant and this will be a sign from God," it says, "this will be a sign from God, the young woman will be pregnant." With a young woman's pregnancy being a sign from God, the idea of "virgin" is merely implicit - for a young woman who has been swyving, pregnancy is to be expected; it is not a sign from God.

        Parthenos points more to the purity/innocence of the person, not restricted to females, and commonly extending to virginity by association. Parthenos implies but does not declare Mary's virginity: her statement, "I have never been with a man" does.
        Last edited by tabibito; 11-20-2022, 05:10 PM.
        1Cor 15:34 Come to your senses as you ought and stop sinning; for I say to your shame, there are some who know not God.
        .
        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛
        Scripture before Tradition:
        but that won't prevent others from
        taking it upon themselves to deprive you
        of the right to call yourself Christian.

        ⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛⊛

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by tabibito View Post

          ったく

          Almah is a young woman, LXX parthenos is not particularly indicative of virginity. The passage does not say "the young woman will be (or, is) pregnant and this will be a sign from God," it says, "this will be a sign from God, the young woman will be pregnant." With a young woman's pregnancy being a sign from God, the idea of "virgin" is merely implicit - for a young woman who has been swyving, pregnancy is to be expected; it is not a sign from God.

          Parthenos points more to the purity/innocence of the person, not restricted to females, and commonly extending to virginity by association. Parthenos implies but does not declare Mary's virginity: her statement, "I have never been with a man" does.
          I just added a new word to my vocabulary.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post

            Fortunately, we are pretty much isolated from that in a very conservative county in Texas, but it has actually surfaced in bigger towns near us.
            We are moving from possibly the most progressive county in the South to a mostly rural one. We thought that might be an escape, but the rural elementary school's website has pictures of rainbow stuff.

            I can't imagine there won't be some difference, though.

            (I also am personally reluctant of viewing this county's culture as unquestionably good because the biggest town has had a history of being a sundown town, and there was a "the KKK welcomes you" billboard nearby for many years.)
            "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

            Comment


            • #51
              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post

              We are moving from possibly the most progressive county in the South to a mostly rural one. We thought that might be an escape, but the rural elementary school's website has pictures of rainbow stuff.

              I can't imagine there won't be some difference, though.

              (I also am personally reluctant of viewing this county's culture as unquestionably good because the biggest town has had a history of being a sundown town, and there was a "the KKK welcomes you" billboard nearby for many years.)
              How recent is this history?

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                How recent is this history?
                Apparently the sign was removed in 1977.
                "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post

                  Apparently the sign was removed in 1977.
                  Okay. I know where that is. That's about the same time that a town in north Georgia ended it's unofficial sunshine law.

                  I'm always still in trouble again

                  "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                  "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                  "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                  Comment

                  Related Threads

                  Collapse

                  Topics Statistics Last Post
                  Started by Apologiaphoenix, 03-15-2024, 10:19 PM
                  14 responses
                  75 views
                  1 like
                  Last Post rogue06
                  by rogue06
                   
                  Started by Apologiaphoenix, 03-13-2024, 10:13 PM
                  6 responses
                  61 views
                  0 likes
                  Last Post Apologiaphoenix  
                  Started by Apologiaphoenix, 03-12-2024, 09:36 PM
                  1 response
                  23 views
                  0 likes
                  Last Post rogue06
                  by rogue06
                   
                  Started by Apologiaphoenix, 03-11-2024, 10:19 PM
                  0 responses
                  22 views
                  2 likes
                  Last Post Apologiaphoenix  
                  Started by Apologiaphoenix, 03-08-2024, 11:59 AM
                  7 responses
                  55 views
                  0 likes
                  Last Post whag
                  by whag
                   
                  Working...
                  X